Conference ROI: Why Walking In With Three Problems Beats Walking Out With Fifteen | Robert Dell’Osso

A Podcast | Robert Dell’Osso

Pete Neubig: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of NARPM radio. My name is Pete Neubig, the host and the voice of NARPM. And today I have my good buddy, return guest, Robert Dell’Osso. Dell’Osso, Dell’Osso, which one do you like better, Rob?

Robert Dell’Osso: Dell’Osso.

Pete Neubig: Robert Dell’Osso. I've been calling him Dell’Osso for a year now, and he's too kind to tell me to get my New York accent out of my mouth and call him Robert Dell’Osso. Robert is the co-founder and CEO of Masterkey Property Management in North Carolina. Robert, thanks so much for joining me again.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah, Pete, glad to be back. Thanks for having me.

Pete Neubig: So for those who don't know, Robert and I, we hang out a lot. We smoke a lot of cigars. We do cigar masterminds like once every other month. And so Robert is one of my really close buddies in NARPM. We've met through NARPM, and now we've extended that to, now he's just a buddy. He's not a NARPM friend. Now I just dropped a NARPM. Now he's just my buddy.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: So I wanted to get you on because we were talking a couple weeks ago, and you were like, man, a lot of people go to these conferences, get all this information, and then they get like analysis paralysis. So I want you to talk through how you, you know, you've been doing conferences for a while now. Talk through about like how you enter a conference, and then like maybe even like, you know, how you exit, like how you, you know, the mindset going in and then the mindset coming out of the conference.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah. And I have been going to conferences for a while, and I was actually fortunate enough to speak on something similar a couple of weeks ago at the Affolio Future Conference. So it's perfect timing. I try to go into a conference with some ideas in my head, you know, try to brainstorm and identify what kind of bottlenecks do you have in your company or things that are just repetitive administrative type things that you do over and over, but they take up a lot of your time when you add them all up. And so I go in with a plan, like how can I solve these operational constraints or bottlenecks I have instead of just going in and learning about every vendor solution. I, you know, pick my own topics and then I narrow it down and talk to those vendors and see what they have to offer and see if I can come up with solutions to my problems, right? And maybe that solution is signing up with a vendor. Maybe that solution is creating some sort of a new process or automation or utilizing AI even, you know, that's new for a lot of people. What's the solution that'll solve that bottleneck for me? And then I try to implement it. But I only pick, you know, around three, maybe four, because what I find is if you go in, I've got 12 or 15 different problems and I'm going to go out with 12 or 15 different things I want to implement, a lot of times, just like you said, you'll get the analysis paralysis and you'll either not implement them or you'll partially implement them and not really use them. And then the next year you're at the conference again and you're kind of right. It's square one still.

Pete Neubig: OK, so do you do you write them down? Do you talk to the team like or do you innately know what the issues are in your business?

Robert Dell’Osso: Like I'm yeah, I have conversations with my leadership team. I make some notes just for myself, just as simple as like a notepad on my laptop. Nothing too formal. And I also have things in my head and and things might pop in while I'm there. Right. The conversations with other property managers might trigger something in my head. Oh, yeah. You know, I have that problem, too. I mean, let me make sure I try it. Maybe that's gets added to the priority list and it's bumped up high. So I'm going to focus on that, you know.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I had a business coach that he used to teach me make all the make smart goals every time you go to some type of conference.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: So and I'm going to have my business coach going to yell at me because I'm not going to remember the acronym, but let's see if we can get through it right. Specific, measurable goal. What is it? Is it available or action? Action.

Robert Dell’Osso: And then it's action results based in time.

Pete Neubig: Right.

Robert Dell’Osso: Time. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So like so we would write down. We'd write down like in our NBA. So we'd write down like smart goals. And the reason that you're doing that is because you want your brain like it's kind of like if you just bought a new, you know, blue truck, all of a sudden a blue Chevy, whatever, Silverado, all of a sudden you start seeing blue Chevy Silverados everywhere. Right. You have this you have your mind is like, oh, yeah, I was going to buy a blue Chevy Silverado. Now they're all over the place. So if you have these smart goals or like Robert says, like these three to four things that you really want to succeed or solve in your business, it's going to be top of mind so that when you're having conversations with people, you start asking them about it. Is that is that how you go about it when you get to the conference?

Robert Dell’Osso: Absolutely. Some of the best ways I solution a problem are talking to other PM. So I always encourage, you know, talk to have those hallway conversations. I know it can be if you're if you're new to conference going to conferences, it can be a little intimidating just going up to PM. But there's a lot of big names you hear about online that are at these conferences and they're all super friendly. Right. Just go up and introduce yourself. And they're all they all give back. Right. Because they like to give back to the community like you and I both do and have conversations. You know, people come up to me now and have conversations about it. And I try to help them out and give my feedback. I don't I don't necessarily tell them what to do, but I give them some ideas of how to do it or how to look at it, because everybody's business is different. Right. So a solution that works for me may not work for for them. So but kind of those brainstorming and conversations in the hallways in between sessions or at launches or in the evenings can really help you come up with the solution that you need for your problem you're solving.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, especially if you're new and you don't really know too many people. What a great icebreaker. Right. Hey, I'm having trouble, you know, with, you know, maintenance, you know, my maintenance coordinators. What do you do? Right. Like, I'm having trouble exactly with maintenance backed up. What do you do? Well, you know, do you have any any recommendations? And the thing about the NARPM community, Robert, you know, this is that they are like you and I like we're not we're not the we're the norm. We're not the outliers. Everybody gives back is what I find. It's just a culture that NARPM is built.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah, take all the people that come on this podcast is because they want to give back. Right. They're all on NARPM radio. So, you know, go back and listen to those episodes, catch those names, and then you'll see those names on the name badge as you go up and introduce yourself. Every one of them is super friendly. If they if they weren't, they wouldn't have come on podcasts. They wouldn't be showing up conferences and talking to people. You know, we all like the vast majority of us all love to give back and help the industry.

Pete Neubig: Yep. And there are no stupid questions to stupid people that ask questions. No kidding, everybody. And so, like, you know, when you're there, it's OK. So now you did the pre-work, you got your SMART goals or at least your goals. You talk to the team, you know what you're trying to to accomplish. Now, while you're there, if if there's obviously if there's sessions that help solve that problem, those are the ones you're going to go to. Right. That's how you're going to pick your sessions. How do you pick them now and how did you pick them when you first started out? Did you do you pick them differently? Do you do you pick based on who's speaking or a new topic that's coming out? Blah, blah, blah. Like, what do you how are you doing that?

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah, Rich. Now it's all about I want to go to a session that is can help me. Hey, maybe I'm having a problem in this particular line of business. Like you said, maybe it's maintenance or maybe it's A.I. or something I want to learn more about something that's a topic of interest to me that can maybe help me solve some operational constraints. Before, it was just kind of all over the place. I didn't know what to go to. I just went to things that sounded good. I didn't know the people and, you know, I guess it's OK. Right. Like it's but it may not necessarily be something that will help you. I want to go to topics that are going to help me in my business. And obviously not every topic will help every single person. But we give a ring. You know, NARPROM does a bunch of different topics to try to help people, as many people as possible. So you have to look at the topics and even maybe talk to other PMs. You know, so if you come in, you know, the night before a conference, there's usually some sort of a mixer or something. Start talking to people. What are you what are you trying to get out of this conference? One of the things that I like about the conferences are there's representations from our system of record providers. Right. Our folios, our rent vines, buildiums, door loops. They're all there. Right. So I personally use that folio. So it's important to me to talk to customer success people at Folio, because one of the things I'm trying to accomplish is get as much use out of the existing software platform I have.

Instead of bolting on additional softwares and one of the ways I'm doing it is is workflow automations within our software. So if I can meet with them and they can help me build out a workflow while I'm at a conference, that's great. Right. I'm paying for the software. A lot of them have customer success people available. A lot of them will have even breakout rooms where they can just sit at a table in the hallway and sit down with you because they want you to get, you know, as much use of the features they make available to you as possible. And I think a lot of people don't fully utilize their primary system of records software.

Pete Neubig: I think that's brilliant. What people think of challenges, they're thinking of challenges in the business, so to speak. Yeah. They're not thinking of challenges that how they can solve with existing software a lot of times. Like, can my system of record, you know, how can I utilize it? How can I leverage it? You know, can I even if I could buy an add on that might be cheaper than going out and rebuilding a whole process?

Robert Dell’Osso: Right. Right. You don't necessarily build it from scratch. I mean, a couple of examples I'll give real quick. Some of the repetitive things I do, I send the collections every month, accounts past due of old tenants who moved out. They still have a balance after 30 days. I send them to collections. I was able to automate that within my software, the delinquency process I was able to automate. And by that, it's, you know, send out the demand letter. We're an electronic service state. So we just send out the demand letters automated the day, you know, after rent, the grace period for rent and charge late fees. That saved me a ton of time right there. Lead based pain issues. So, you know, pre 78 houses were supposed to send out the renovate right brochure whenever there's maintenance requests. I was able to automate that and send it out. So a maintenance coordinator doesn't have to manually look for pre 78 houses on maintenance requests and then send that letter to the tenants electronically. As soon as they submit. It just sends it out to them. And so that saved me a lot of time and helped me with compliance.

Pete Neubig: And so that's like noticing something like it doesn't have to be a big challenge, right? It could be what's an efficiency and then go leverage the vendors because this is a great time to really build those relationships with those vendors and to really dive into the product more. OK, so now then my homework, I went out, I talked to the vendors, I've talked to some people, I did the right breakouts. Let's be honest, Robert. The best piece of advice that I always get when I'm at a conference especially when I was a property manager, was typically when some some property manager was at the bar hanging out and having a couple of drinks. I think it's true. Is that where the best conversations are?

Robert Dell’Osso: I find it. And, you know, you don't have if you don't drink, that's fine. But you go to that bar area like the lobby bar. I always say go to the lobby bar. It's packed with cops, with property managers, is packed with vendors. It's a no pressure situation. You can have conversations. You can talk with other PMs. You can get real honest feedback. It's actually super productive, right?

Pete Neubig: I don't know if it's everybody has a drink or two and they're just a little bit more relaxed. And so they're more even more giving because they're giving during the day. But I think they embellish and they make the stories a little bit more fun at night.

Robert Dell’Osso: Right. For sure. And hey, let's face it. If you want to get a free drink or two, you go to that bar. There's a vendor who's going to buy you a free drink. No pressure.

Pete Neubig: That's right. He probably has a VPM hat on this, on this most likely.

Robert Dell’Osso: Right. Louis.

Pete Neubig: OK, so so now talk to me because you're you and I are old hats now. We've been we've been into these NARPA nationals and NARPA and broker owners for, I think, 10 years now, seven to 10 years. But take me back to the first one you went to and how you felt with how much information, how many notes did you have? How much like we like information overload? How did you compartmentalize that? And how did you attack the the stuff that you learned?

Robert Dell’Osso: It was completely overload because I didn't know. I got, you know, you haven't been and you're going to go to a conference where there's call it fifteen hundred attendees. I don't know. What do you think? A hundred vendors? Yep. So in any you know, really, you're pushing upwards to 2000 people, right? Because vendors bring three, four or five people. So if you've never experienced that, it is definitely information overload. Right. And you're walking down and you feel like you have to talk to everybody. Go to every session. You know, if maybe a company brings two or three people so they can split up and attend every session, then. That's it's a lot. Right.

Pete Neubig: So and everybody, everybody you talk to has a way of doing something because everybody does does the same stuff, but we all do it very differently. Right. Similar but differently. Right. So all of a sudden, like you're going to learn about all this new software you never heard about. You're going to learn about all these new processes and you learn about, oh, hey, I do it this way and I do it this way. And you're taking all these notes and it is could be overwhelming.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah, for sure. So you go back, you get a whole notepad of stuff and it's and then what do you do with it, right? If you go back with this massive pad of notes and you dump that on your team, you have a team. They're going to freak out, right? Because they know it's going to affect them. And one of the things I'll tell people is don't ever do that during the summer. Whatever you do, don't do it during the summer peak season. I actually have a company policy and I know other PMs, a lot of other PMs do. We don't make any operational major operational changes. We won't change software during the summer peak season. Right. Wait till the winter time when things are slower. You can kind of do a post busy season, you know, debrief, see how things work, where you can improve on the winter time. You know, November, December, January. That's the time where you can really implement things properly. But, you know, if you overload your team, you could it could even lead to staff turnover. Oh, my God. You know, Robert's brought back a list of twenty five different things and he wants to implement like we're already busy. I don't want to be a part of this.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you're into this profile, if you have a bunch of S's in the office and you come up and you're going to change everything, they are going to be super stressed. Right.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: A bunch of D's and I's like, yeah, let's go for it.

Robert Dell’Osso: You know, I want to make changes that help the rest of my team members. Right. Makes their lives easier.

Pete Neubig: Right. So I'm going to I'm going to ask you about that here in a second. But when I my first I think it was like nationals, I was taking notes in the front of my notebook, like old school notebook with a pen notebook. And then I was putting tasks on the back. All right. Each line of the notebook was going to be a task. My the tasks was like five pages long. And then what I did is on the airplane, you know, I looked at my notes. I looked at the task like a task would have been like, read this book. Right. Or, you know, because I'm talking to somebody like, oh, you got to read Ubuntu. Like, that's the best book. It changed my life. I'm like, I got to read this book, you know. And so it's like some of it was like, OK, do I really need to do that right now? I was just kind of caught up in a moment. I just wrote it down. I scratched it off. Then I would prioritize all of the all of the tasks. And then I would take the top three. And that's what I would bring to my team. And I'm like, OK, these are the three things. And they are, you know, they aligned with challenges that we're having. And the way I sold to my team was I did the old whistle. Right. What's in it for them? Mm hmm. And so it looks like somebody's getting mauled in your backyard there.

Robert Dell’Osso: You know, you've met my dogs.

Pete Neubig: That's right.

Robert Dell’Osso: You've got the neighbors dogs, right? The neighbors dogs.

Pete Neubig: That's right. The joys of doing podcasts from our houses. Right. Right. So with anyway, with with my team, I did the with and what's in it for them. And you hit the nail on the head. You basically say in your team how it's going to affect their job in a in a positive way, right? I'm not going to make it worse for a short term. It might be tougher because we have to do the job and build the process or the system or the new widget. But when it's done, imagine what your life's going to look like when it's done. Do you go? Did you do about the same thing?

Robert Dell’Osso: That's kind of how I approached it, probably after my first by about second conference. More of a methodical, here's how we're going to improve things. One of the things I'm working on now is our leasing process in the terms of drafting and sending out the leases. There's technology available in my existing property management software. I can run it through that versus like you go and do a docusign, then you dump it in. It's all in there. Right. And it automatically updates the tenant record. And so that's, hey, to my property managers who do this particular work, this is going to save you a lot of time and make it easier for you to get leases out, get them signed quicker. We process the move ins in a more streamlined manner. And, you know, they should like that, right? Because it's going to save them some time, less manual, less going from one software to another, you know, back and forth and all this. And it'll just all be contained. Right. So versus email, docusign, folio or some, put it all in one. You're done.

Pete Neubig: Now, are you still the guy that actually runs the project at Masterkey or do you have somebody that that kind of owns that project?

Robert Dell’Osso: Like it depends on the solution. Some of them I do. And then some of them, like I'll task my operations manager to do it. And then I'll have her report to me as the executive sponsor.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, that's the next thing you have to look at, right, if you have all these tasks, like all these projects that you're going to do. Somebody's got to be the project manager. Typically, that's the person that's on the plane reading out which projects we're going to do on the way from the conference. The other thing that I find interesting, it's we get excited at the conference, right? We heard the speaker or the property manager tell us it's the best thing since sliced bread. But a lot of times it's like the telephone game. Like when I told my team, it's not as exciting as when I learned it. Like I'm not transferring that information as as well as I could. So you have to make it where it's super, where it's going to be changing their life. It's going to be life changing for you to your team.

Robert Dell’Osso: Right, because they're not there in person with us to like get it firsthand. Right, right. The person who's communicating it to us does a much better job of selling it probably than we do to our team. Right. So you got to make sure you capture enough information so you can speak to it in a manner that, you know, sells it to your team. Right. And explains it, how it's going to be life changing, make their job easier, less stressful. You know, the last thing we want is more stress in our days. Right. So that's right. It's going to make us if it's going to make a team member more stressful. We don't want to do it. I mean, I've had instances where I've demoed software to my team and they came back to me and said, hey, I don't think we should do this because this is another software that we have to bolt on and we already got to log on to, you know, X amount of softwares. It's going to make things more stressful for us in a way. And I didn't implement it for that. I said, OK, well, let's use a different solution that we already have. Maybe it's 80 to 85 percent of what this third party offered. But over time, they'll keep improving it and it'll get better. Right. And that's what I've seen. So I want my team to give me that feedback.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, because you want them to be able to. They want it. You have to sell it. They have to sell it.

Robert Dell’Osso: They have to want to adopt it. I mean, you know, my team knows like they're they're not afraid to say, hey, we shouldn't do that.

Pete Neubig: I I try to implement a inspection fee for like a pet inspection fee. And, you know, we were going out there to do the inspection anyway. So in theory, I was trying to double dip and my team called me out on it. And they're like, we cannot. I said, you know what? I don't feel comfortable charging this. And I think they're not going to sell it. So I'm like, all right. And so, you know, that was something that was a situation where I listened to my team as well. Team that won all the battles. But you got to let them win one every once in a while. Right. It's true. It's true. Now, let me ask you this, because, you know, one of the big things in NARPM is this this this debate about should you ask about door count or people like door count? Like it's good, bad. I have my reasons on why I like asking about door count, but I'd like to get your opinion on, you know, does door count matter?

Robert Dell’Osso: Well, I think it matters for sure. Right. Because you still get engages you because I want to know what if I'm talking another PM and they're asking me stuff, just trying to help brainstorm. I want to know their door count because I want to know, like, what level of operation their business is. Right. So I can try to give solutions that will help them. Of course, you want your door count high and you want your RPU high. Right. I mean, but it's still very important to find out and talk about door count. You know, you're going to talk to somebody with twenty five dollars differently than you talk to twenty five hundred dollars or five hundred dollars. Right.

Pete Neubig: That was on my side. Now I got my dog protecting me. So, yes, I'm 100 percent. Actually, let's pause here and I'll come back.

Robert Dell’Osso: OK.

Pete Neubig: I'll take it back up. So I'm 100 percent on board with you on the door count and for the very similar reasons that that you brought up. Like, I know like door counts supposed to be a, you know, a swinging contest, so to speak. And that's not why I like door count. I'm an ops guy like you, Robert. Right. We like the operational things. If I have 800 units and nine and eight and seven hundred of them are HOA units and only a hundred single family homes, that's completely different than somebody running 800 single family homes. And just to do apples to apples, if I have 800 units and I'm talking to somebody with 90 units, it's completely different. Like, I cannot give him the information on how I do things because that he's not there yet. He's got to take that. You've got to kind of look at the time.

Robert Dell’Osso: It's not or if you know, 75 percent of units are multifamily complexes. Right. With on-site staff, it's different.

Pete Neubig: Right. Right. Staff makeup, automations, you know, just just like when I have 50 units, I'm driving to the houses when I have 800 units. I have three field techs running around driving to the houses. Yeah. Completely different business. I was a completely different, but but a huge operationally, it's completely different.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Or if I have 800 units in one in one city and then I'm talking to a guy like Jacqueline, you appear and he's one of 20,000 units in 57 markets like I. Right. It's different. It's a little. It is. It's apples to oranges. So it's a little different. So I guess the reason I bring that up is, you know, when you are asking people, if you if you're asking people like, hey, how do you handle X, Y and Z? You might want to ask them door count so that you understand like where where their point of view is as far as the solution that they're giving you.

Robert Dell’Osso: That's right, because I want to give them advice from my perspective that's useful for them. So if I'm talking to somebody, I don't know their door count and I tell them, oh, yeah, you know, you need to get make sure your maintenance coordinator does this and your field tech does this and your your inside property, you know, remote team member who helps the field tech does this. That may not be applicable to them at all because they've got 25 doors or something, right? And so then they're just like, none of this applies to me. So that's one of the early questions like, oh, tell me about the makeup of your company, you know, size, door count, number of staff, and then you can help give them more valuable information because that's what it's about.

Pete Neubig: 100 percent. And so, OK, so let's kind of wrap this up. So before you go to a conference, what should they do?

Robert Dell’Osso: Come up with three bottlenecks that tie up your time that you would like to get solved. The top three, doesn't matter what they are, and maybe the bottleneck only takes one hour, maybe it takes four hours a week, but just come up with three.

Pete Neubig: Come up with solutions to three challenges in your business. I love it. Yeah. OK, now what when I'm at the conference, what am I doing to to solve those challenges?

Robert Dell’Osso: You are having conversations with other PMs and I almost think it's important to have conversations with other PMs first to kind of get their perspectives and feedback. And then you follow those up with you go into the exhibitor hall and start talking to those exhibitors. Yeah. Hey, you know, I talked to Jeff and he was telling me about remote team members. I really could use one. You know, Pete, can you tell me like I've never used one before? Can you tell me how I can that can help me? That kind of thing versus just going in blind, kind of go in, talk, have a have your plan to talk to them.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. And then hit the breakouts that can solve your problem. Yep. Right. So focus breakouts, not on the speaker, not on if it sounds entertaining, but on does it solve can it solve the problem that that I'm having?

Robert Dell’Osso: And don't be afraid to go up to that breakout speaker after their session.

Pete Neubig: That's a great point.

Robert Dell’Osso: You know, pass them a business card. Hey, I'd love to connect up with you if the conference. Great. If not, can we talk maybe, you know, next week? I've just got some issues that I think you could maybe I'd like to, you know, pick your brain a little bit.

Pete Neubig: Yep. And then, OK, on the way home, what am I doing?

Robert Dell’Osso: Documenting like while still fresh in mind, right, like you've got your you've already got your three issues, you've got potential solutions, maybe it's more than one solution. Start thinking through and brainstorming that right. Those solutions for each issue and coming up with your plan to implement. So then when you get back, if you have a team that you need to run it through, you can say here's the issue. Here's the solution. Here's the plan to implement. You get their feedback. Don't just dump it on and say, this is what we're doing. Right. Get their feedback first and then work to implement that, knowing that I wouldn't change that.

Pete Neubig: I wouldn't change that to get their buy in.

Robert Dell’Osso: That's right. Get their buy in. But also, once you implement, assuming they buy in, don't expect it to be perfect. No, you're going to have to circle back and refine down the road in a lot of cases. Yep. You got to kind of refine your solution to make it work better for you.

Pete Neubig: And if you have more than like three solutions, you know, prioritize. Knock one out. Maybe it's one per quarter or maybe it's all three in one quarter. Then go back and what I try to do, Robert, is I try like every time I went to a NARPM National, I'd have all these tasks and I would try to get them all done before NARPM broker owner. NARPM broker owner had all these tasks and I try to get them done before NARPM National. And honestly, it's flipping work, man. Within five years, I had a complete property management company built by NARPM and NARPM members.

Robert Dell’Osso: And you've got like six months in between each of those conferences, so it's totally doable if you don't try to do too much, too much at once, take on too much at once.

Pete Neubig: That's right.

Robert Dell’Osso: Because one of the things you don't want to do is go try to take on all this stuff. Maybe you went and bought a bunch of software, you didn't fully implement it, you're paying for this stuff that you're not even using and that, you know, affects your bottom line.

Pete Neubig: Oh, that's never happened to me. All the time. Yeah.

Robert Dell’Osso: Right.

Pete Neubig: And then I'm a big fan of EOS, right? If you're using traction or EOS model, you know, just because you came back from a conference, if you already have your goals set up for the quarter, you can't add some new goals. Like, so this has to be like, oh, okay. You know, like we're in October now, right? October is the Q4. If you set your goals up at Q4 and you come up with all these ideas, it's like, uh, what is it? Um, one comes in, one's got to go out, right? Garbage in, garbage out, or FIFO, first in, first out, whatever it is.

Robert Dell’Osso: Right.

Pete Neubig: But like, if you, you can't just push this on to the team. So it might be, okay, these are going to be starting in January or, hey, this is a solution. It's, it's more high priority than what we have already that scheduled for Q4. Let's go ahead and push that to Q1 of next year.

Robert Dell’Osso: Yeah, I agree. I'm a big fan of the, of the EOS. So for those out there, if you haven't read traction, just go read traction. It's not a long read. I think it's like under 200 pages maybe.

Pete Neubig: Yeah.

Robert Dell’Osso: Uh, it's an easy read. You should definitely do it and try to start setting that up. Even if you do like an EOS light or something, just start working that framework into your business.

Pete Neubig: A hundred percent agreed. Robert, thanks so much for your words of wisdom. Appreciate you. Um, if somebody says, Hey man, I'm going to pick Robert's brain. What's the best way to get you?

Robert Dell’Osso: Uh, well I'll be at the conferences typically. So you'll see me there or they can email me robertatmasterkeypm.com and I'm happy to chat.

Pete Neubig: And if you're listening to this and you are not a member of NARPM, you can go to narpm.org or give them a call at 800-782-3452. Robert, thanks for being here. Thanks everybody.

Robert Dell’Osso: Thanks Pete.