A Podcast | Stephen Fox

Pete Neubig: Welcome, everybody, to the NARPM Radio podcast. I am your host, Pete Neubig, the voice of Northam. And I have Stephen Fox, co-founder of Upkeep Media, a marketing agency that specializes in helping residential property management companies grow their businesses so they focus on our industry. Over the past decade, Steve and his team has worked with over more than over 400 property management companies across the US and Canada, helping them generate consistent owner leads through SEO, YouTube marketing, which we're going to talk about today. website development, reputation management. Under his leadership, upcoming has become one of the most trusted marketing partners in the property management industry. Stephen, welcome to the show.

Stephen Fox: Thanks for having me. Thanks for the nice intro. Appreciate it.

Pete Neubig: Well, you wrote it, man, so I'm just I'm just regurgitating it. All right. So I really wanted to hit upon, YouTube video. Right. So, video is becoming, a super effective tool for winning new owners. You know, I mean, blogs are kind of old hag now and like you and YouTube and video seems to be, seems to be growing. obviously YouTube's the £800 gorilla. So what are some easy ways that PMS can start using YouTube but not needing a big budget, right. Because everybody's like, oh man, I want to do video, but I need, you know, 14 different marketing, you know, specialists to, to to get this going.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. I mean the truth is you don't right. If you want something that's really polished and that looks like it's a multi-million dollar production, sure. But that's not what you're up against, right? So at this point, the barrier in terms of like what your competition is doing is so low that even if you get there with unedited videos and you're just going and like vlogging, like literally recording whatever topic it is you want to talk about and uploading them, you're already doing more than 99% of property management companies when it comes to video. So if we want to talk like how do you make it look decent without having a big budget? Easiest thing is use the camera from your smartphone. The camera from your smartphone is really high quality. It's 1080p like you'll be fine. And then buy a good quality microphone. one I recommend is called a Blue Yeti. It's about 100 bucks. I think I've had mine for nearly a decade. And that's it. Like, that's literally all you need.

Pete Neubig: Do you recommend that they do this? Like, kind of like the way we're doing it, like on our desktop? or do you recommend, like, where they actually walk around or are they just doing it on their on their iPhone like it doesn't matter. Or both combination.

Stephen Fox: What I'd recommend is do it from your iPhone, but with a decent background. Okay, so what you would do is get get like a tripod, put your iPhone on it, connect your iPhone with the microphone, you just buy an adapter. It's about $15. You connect the the iPhone with the microphone and then record yourself with a decent background. And that's it. There's nothing more to it. the reason why I say use an iPhone over your computer is generally the camera is better on smartphones than they are on most standard cameras that come with a computer. now, if it's between doing nothing or recording it on the computer, just do it on the computer. Overthinking.

Pete Neubig: And these when I'm talking, when, when when product managers talking, we're, we're we're creating topics and talking about topics for our ICP, our ideal client profile. Is that correct?

Stephen Fox: Yeah, exactly. basically just think of what are common topics that potential leads have for you. Start there. So like what are things that rental property owners struggle with. Try to think of like what are the top ten pain points that my ideal client faces?

Pete Neubig: What are all the questions they ask you during the sales process? Right.

Stephen Fox: Yeah, exactly. And then make a detailed video for each one of those. So let's say that you start by your ten most common, like the ten most common pain points that rental property owners are facing. Then you make a video answering with solutions to each of those pain points. So that's ten videos right there. You have one video per pain point. Then from there you can expand further. You can go and create videos around, real estate investing, things that real estate investors might be interested in knowing in your local market. You can keep them updated on new local regulations that pass in your area. You can think about, different. You can even bring it really local and start bringing them out to like different neighborhoods and filming the neighborhoods, showing them what they look like. But you get creative with it, but it's really a matter of just don't overthink it. The way I kind of like to position it as if your video is really awful. All that's going to happen is no one's going to watch it, right? A really terrible video doesn't get views. So if you're scared and you're like, I don't want to get in front of the camera. What if the video I create really sucks? People are going to laugh. That's not what's going to happen. All that's going to happen is no one's going to watch. Someone's going to get on the video, they're going to spend 10s. They're gonna be like, this is terrible. I'm turning it off. But the only way to get better is if you start.

Pete Neubig: So I created a list of kind of FAQs, kind of, you know, you know, just brainstorm and just create a list and then just do a couple of videos a day. Upload them. How how many videos should I be uploading? Is it daily. Is it weekly? Is it you know, like what's the cadence?

Stephen Fox: I mean, in a perfect world, every day. Sure. But I don't think most people have the time to do that. So what I'd recommend is if you're just launching your channel, then start off more aggressive, so try to go for eight videos per month, so roughly two per week. Then do that for the first four months. Afterwards you can slowly taper off. So after four months you'll have about 32 videos up. Then from there you can taper off and dial it back to maybe four videos per month. And then as your time permits, if you can do more, then go for it. But that would be kind of like the minimum effective dose is what I'd say if you're really looking to heavily focus on YouTube.

Pete Neubig: All right. So now I put them on my channel. How do people actually find it though. Like that's that's kind of like the big like oh man. All right. No I don't have any subscribers yet or I don't want to have to spend a whole like people's whole lives are getting subscribers, right. These Instagram peoples and and these influencers, like, I don't have time for that crap. So how does the how does video benefit if I'm not drawing anybody to my channel?

Stephen Fox: Yeah. So there's a few ways that I'll kind of touch on. So first is how do people end up finding it? If you create one video and put it on YouTube, no one's going to find it. But if you consistently do this over a long period of time, eventually YouTube rewards you. They start showing your video higher in suggested videos. So you know when you finish watching a YouTube video, it shows you other videos you might be interested in. You become more likely to show up there. You'll end up showing up higher when someone's actually using YouTube as a search engine. Like if someone's going and typing in, you know, whatever. How to screen tenants in Richmond, Virginia. so in terms of YouTube's algorithm, you need to feed it content. You need to be producing content regularly. What you also should be doing, though, is leverage your existing audience. So you have if you have an email list, you need to be sending your email list a link to the video, along with some sort of description that's going to entice them to want to watch it regularly. So every time the video is released, you send out the video to your email list to let them know if you have a social media following. What you can do is you can take the videos, post it on social media as well. What I'd recommend doing as well is cutting the videos into what we call shorts, which is basically where you're taking 30 to 60 second clips of a long video. Let's say the video is 15 minutes or 10 minutes. You would cut that up into different sections, create 32nd shorts, and then you can use those and post them on social media. So by doing all of this, there ends up being kind of like a steamroller effect. Eventually over time, it picks up momentum. A snowball effect is what?

Pete Neubig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in Canada. Snowball effect man. Come on.

Stephen Fox: Snowball effect. Exactly. Yeah. We don't have snow yet.

Pete Neubig: One of the things that you came up with, that that makes a lot of sense is, you know, when people are googling, right? I think people are still doing that. I know it's going more and more to ChatGPT, which we're going to talk about here. But if they if they are, if they are searching for something through Google and you tag your video like we used to get a lot of hits on Houston. Evictions like that was one of our biggest. Our bigger videos was we would talk about Houston evictions. When somebody did a Houston eviction, we would show up like before our website, like our our video would show up a lot of times on that. So, yeah, big fan of it. it is a little time consuming, but the the what is it? The juice is worth the squeeze. Yeah.

Stephen Fox: Yeah, exactly. And Google owns YouTube, right? That's right. So they favor it. And that's why you'll see YouTube videos show up in search results. And then by taking those videos and embedding them on your website, that's only going to benefit the SEO of your website. So they pair really nicely together because they both have benefits for each other, essentially.

Pete Neubig: So I touched on AI just a second ago. So what is the future of marketing in property management in your, you know, in your opinion.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. so I'll touch on two things. One, right now, if we're looking at AI search. It's still a fraction of the size of what Google is. It's not even second or third or fourth largest search engine at this point now.

Pete Neubig: So it's like Bing is still better, is still more used.

Stephen Fox: So I don't I don't I don't know about Bing. I know YouTube is much more heavily used than YouTube. yeah. I actually shot a video on this, and I had the stats of the demographic that is using AI search and basically by age category who is adapting AI search and it's generally younger generations makes sense. But if we compare that with the age of rental property owners, it's the wrong demographic, right?

Pete Neubig: Really is the is the renters? Renters are older or generally, I think generally. Company owners. Property. Sorry. Homeowners rent. You know company company. investors are typically older. But renters I thought were younger. So are renters older now as well?

Stephen Fox: I'm talking about on the homeowners on the rental property owner side.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay.

Stephen Fox: So people looking to hire a property management company.

Pete Neubig: That makes sense.

Stephen Fox: Demographics tends to be older, usually 50 plus, whereas the demographic that is adapting searches, search engines like ChatGPT are more so like 20 to 30 year olds.

Pete Neubig: That makes a lot of sense.

Stephen Fox: Now, that being said, I think if we talk three years from now, that's going that's going to change. I think AI search is here and it's not a fad. It's not something that's going away and it's going to continue to develop. But at this exact moment in time, Google still takes the cake when it comes to people looking for property management services.

Pete Neubig: Right. But if I want to be on cutting edge, right. Because look back, you know, 15, 20 years ago, Google was, you know, was cutting edge. getting that, you know, getting on the front page, like, so if you got there first, it's hard to it's hard to dethrone you. So what are some of the things that you think property managers can do to be prepared for what's coming in the next 3 to 5 years.

Stephen Fox: For sure? so we've been doing a lot of testing with this. So I do have a few insights I can share with you. so, I mean, to start off with the foundations that get you to show up in Google Translate. Translate to AI search. So if we're talking like ChatGPT perplexity, it's the same principles that get you to show up in Google AI up that you need to do to show up in AI search as well, with additional elements added to it. So if we just look at the foundations, Having a good quality website, having strong content that goes in depth. On the topic of property management for your market, building backlinks to your website, having high quality reviews. Those are all things that are important to get you to show up high in Google. Also important to show up high with AI search.

Pete Neubig: Interesting. Okay.

Stephen Fox: Now with AI search there's extra elements. So to give you an example, one of them is they pull what people are saying on online forums on niche type of websites to see what the overall sentiment is about, the particular business that they're going, that they're choosing to show up. So what that means is having good reviews on Yelp is becoming more important. Getting your. Yeah, I know getting your company featured or talked about on online forums like Reddit, for example, is important.

Pete Neubig: Oh, wow.

Stephen Fox: Getting your company listed. Yeah, getting your company listed on niche specific websites is important. So propertymanagement.com For example like you would want to get listed there. Those are going to be a bigger factor as time continues. And if you think of it, it's because they're able to look just like a human would at all of the different websites online, just like you would do if you were looking up a company you're not. You might do more in-depth research than just looking up their Google reviews, right? You might go online, look at Google reviews, you might look at their Yelp reviews, you might go on Reddit and ask other people if they have experience working with that company. So those are becoming more important. And then market specific. The best thing you can do is you ask, let's say we're using ChatGPT. You ask ChatGPT. Let's say we want to show up for best Property Management Company in Houston. So you can go ask ChatGPT who's the best property management company in Houston. They're going to give you a list. Then from there you're going to ask it, why did you recommend these companies? Then it's going to tell you why. It's usually going to say based off of transparent pricing. yeah. They had good quality reviews. they've been established since 1968. Whatever the reasons they give.

Pete Neubig: They're a NARPM member.

Stephen Fox: They're a NARPM member. Like, whatever the reasons that they give are things that you want to go after for your company if you want to eventually be featured there. They're also going to to to reference the websites that they pulled from. So what you want to try to do is you look at all of the websites that websites that they're using as a reference for their answer, and then you need to try to figure out how to get featured on those websites, or at least as many of them as possible. So you're kind of reverse engineering.

Pete Neubig: So it's like a lot of so it's it's it's third party verification in a way. Just like like I guess Google reviews, I it's almost like it's like kind of like to me, Google reviews, like second party write somebody you've done first party somebody you've done business with, but now you're saying, okay, I have a publication out there, let's just say Houston Press and Houston Press is doing top ten property management companies in Houston. And then they select Empire Property Management as one of those properties. now when I go to GPT or some type of AI that is going to carry more weight than somebody who's not on that on that article.

Stephen Fox: Exactly like that will help you stand out compared to somebody that wasn't featured.

Pete Neubig: I gotta say, I kind of hate it a little bit, because the Houston Press charges me money to be top ten property. I'm kind of like the B-b-b, right? You want to be you want to get a triple A rating? No problem. Here. Cut a check.

Stephen Fox: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Hopefully, it comes down to literally, like, third party people just doing really good work. And, you know, they, they make decisions. But yeah, I can see a slippery slope here. but it's fascinating because it's coming and it's. I think it's coming quicker. You said, you know, we said 3 to 5 years. It could. It could be sooner than that, man. I mean.

Stephen Fox: It could be.

Pete Neubig: Yeah.

Stephen Fox: It could be. And like I said, I was saying if we're discussing this in three years, I think things will be different.

Pete Neubig: Absolutely.

Stephen Fox: Than what we're looking at right now.

Pete Neubig: We're the tip of the iceberg and it's a it's a big iceberg. I know, like VPM, we we're getting I think once a month, once or twice a month, we're getting leads from GPT or from some type of AI. So it's happening. it's already happening.

Stephen Fox: Definitely.

Pete Neubig: Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what, you know, Upkeep Media. What you guys do best is you guys help companies, you know, with lead generation, like that's what you guys do. So, what have you seen with your clients? what lead generation channels work best for PM companies? Because what might work best for VPM may not work best for, you know, for a PM company. So what are you seeing is working out there? And also give me 1 or 2 that's not working. If you if you know.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. So I'd say working best still revolves around creating educational style content that helps position you as the go to expert in your local market.

Pete Neubig: Going back to those YouTube videos.

Stephen Fox: Exactly. So that that translates to your website. So creating it to be a really in-depth source for rental property owners in your local market and YouTube. So basically, SEO and YouTube at this point are still the biggest lead generators from an online standpoint.

Pete Neubig: The Youtube videos, you talked about a channel, but can those YouTube videos And this is me not knowing anything so sorry out there if you know this, but could those YouTube videos be on your website as well. Or or is the website, just have a link to the channel. How does that work?

Stephen Fox: No, definitely. So what you would do is you have them on your channel, but then you also embed them on your website. So you have them in both areas. And then what you can do to take it a step further is you create a written blog post to go along with that video below the video on your website. So now you're feeding Google what what's called rich media. But basically it's a video. They like to see that your website has rich media. They have video that they can use. They have the text below the video that they can use. And it's basically just showing that you're hitting people at all angles and providing a really good user experience, because whether someone prefers to watch the video or to read the text, they have the option for both. Now, if we talk about stuff that is not working. and this is for I'm talking for your typical local property management company, Google Ads. Extremely expensive to acquire a new property. Manage. Can it work? Long run. If you have a large budget? Yes, as long as you know your numbers. So let's say that you know a client's going to be worth $20,000 to your business, and it's costing you $2,000 to acquire that door. Yeah. If you have unlimited cash flow, that can work. But for most local property management companies, that's not the case. It's not a case where you have unlimited resources, unlimited cash flow. The cost per lead from Google Ads has just been skyrocketing over the last five years. Ten years, like every year, it's just getting higher and higher. And at this point, it depends on the market. There's still certain markets where it can make sense. But for most property management companies, if you're looking to build up a marketing system that's going to be sustainable, that's going to generate leads at a reasonable cost. It's just not a route that we generally recommend going.

Pete Neubig: All right. So I got some notes here while you were while you were talking. So a couple of things here. where do you come out on like a podcast? Should a PM company have a podcast? that talks about their market, like, or and or a radio show? Where do you come up on that? Is it worth the. It's time consuming. and but is it worth is it worth it getting that content out there?

Stephen Fox: Definitely. I mean, I think the biggest issue that most property managers face is they don't have the time to do it or they don't want to do it. But yes, if you're willing to put in the effort, it will be worth it. If you have the local podcast for real estate investors and rental property owners in your market. That's going to help set you apart from the other 100 property management companies in your local area. I'd recommend between radio or podcasts like Definitely Go Podcast. It's radio is kind of becoming a thing of the past to a certain extent. Podcasts. You can record it on video.

Pete Neubig: Podcast you can record from radio station from wherever.

Stephen Fox: But but then you can use that video, you can post your podcast onto YouTube. You can extract the audio, post that audio part on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, basically any podcast platform that's out there. So you can take this one podcast and create multiple pieces of content with it. So 100%, if that's something that you're willing to do and you think you would be good at, enjoy it. Go for it.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I always when I bring that up and I talk about this subject, I always think of Mark Ainley. He's kind of the poster child for podcasts. I think he actually does a radio show, which then turns into a podcast or its nest, a podcast. Now he has been doing now anything you do in marketing. Stephen it has to be. It has to be consistent. Is that is that kind of rule number one?

Stephen Fox: Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's like anything, if you're trying to go to the gym, you're not gonna get fit if you go once every five months.

Pete Neubig: Well, I don't overtrain. So I lift once every five months because I'm sore.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. We don't know the genetics you have. You're a different story.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So, you know. With Mark, he's been doing his radio show for years, for years. And now they get tons of leads. Gc I think it's GC Realty. Done tons of leads from his, you know, from his radio show slash podcast. So, you know and now he can sell he actually sells, commercials on it. So now the podcast is starting to make money, not just as a lead generator, but as you know. And now he's actually throwing parties through it because he's got so many people that are interested. So he's done. He's done an amazing, amazing job. So podcasts can be really, really effective.

Stephen Fox: On top of that, with podcasts, what you'll see ends up happening is sometimes you'll get people reach out that don't even own a property there, but they're investors and they're like, hey, I've been listening, or I think Mark is in Chicago, if I'm not mistaken. So you'll get someone from California and they're like, I've been listening to you. I want to do a 1031 or whatever it might be. And I like what you guys have to say, I trust you. Can you help me find the investment property and then manage it for me so you'll get people that didn't even own a property there that reach out because they've been listening to you.

Pete Neubig: And that you just said the magic word. Trust. I know you, I like you people have no idea who you are. And you know, if you're not on, if you're not on the social media, you're not on, you're not on YouTube, you're not doing these videos and you're just some faceless company that's got an About Us page with your picture on it. They cannot. It's harder. They still can get to trust you through that content on the website alone. But I have found that it's much you build much more trust much quicker with, with video, and having a podcast and being consistent. Would you, would you say, yeah, true.

Stephen Fox: Yeah 100%. Yeah. If you are regularly getting on video and speaking to your target audience and they're watching you for sometimes it could be months, sometimes it could even be years. When they do reach out, they feel as if they already know you.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, we all do it. Like, think about it. If you're listening to this, you're doing it right now. Like some, like a lot of people feel like they know me and I love that. I love that because they, they they're listeners and I love that I follow Alex Hormozi. If I saw him walking down the street, I'd be. I'd be like, giving him a five high five. He'd be like, who the hell are you? I'm like, yo Alex, what's up brother? Right. Like, so you it's working on you as you're listening to this. So maybe it might be something that you might want to do so that you can build those relationships. you touched on reputation a little bit, and, I know you didn't touch on the my Google business page. Is that still important to my Google business page?

Stephen Fox: Huge. that's basically the part that shows up for for anyone that doesn't understand when someone is searching. Let's say someone types in property manager in Chicago, you're going to have a search result page broken into three sections. Up top. You're going to have your paid ads. It's going to say sponsored. Those are your Google Ads. The section right below that is the map listing. There's generally three companies that show up there. And then below that are the organic results. To show up in that map listing, you have to have a Google business profile And you have to have your Google business profile registered in the city that that individual is searching for. So to give you an example of what I'm talking about, if someone searches property manager in Chicago, you will never show up in that map section. If your your address for your Google business profile does not have Chicago in it, that at this unless you're in a very, very tiny market and you're in a city really close to it. But for a metropolitan market, you absolutely need your Google business profile address to be in that market.

Pete Neubig: Do you have to have a physical address in Chicago?

Stephen Fox: Yes.

Pete Neubig: You do.

Stephen Fox: To register a Google business profile, you have to have an address. So some people use virtual offices. the truth is it's a bit of trial and error because Google is getting a little bit tougher on cracking down on people using virtual offices. But generally, as long as you can get the Google Business Profile registered, it should stick. Are there cases where it doesn't? In rare circumstances, yes. But generally if you registered it and it's been around for a few months, you're pretty safe at that point.

Pete Neubig: Okay. and then the last thing that I have here, I don't want you to throw him under the bus. but, all property management, they we used to use those guys back in the day. I've been out of it for quite a while. Is that is that something that your clients have used in the past or they still use it? Is it is it successful? I've heard mixed reviews about them.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. you know, I haven't used them personally, so I can't say just from from what I've heard, it seems to be hit or miss, depending on the market. generally, I'd say if you're just starting out and you can be the fastest to lead and possibly a little more flexible on your pricing, then it makes sense because it's the quickest way to start to generate leads, right? If you just started out, you don't have anything going for you. It's worth trying. Is it something that if I'm trying to build a multi-thousand dollar company that I'm going to be relying on as my primary lead source? No.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay. All right. So I'm going to switch gears here. Um. What are. Give me 1 or 2 common mistakes that property management companies make with marketing. And how can we fix those?

Stephen Fox: Yeah. Um. Common mistakes. So do we want to go with overall strategy or like, specifics with their website or.

Pete Neubig: You're the expert. Give me give me one website specific and one overall strategy. How's that break it out.

Stephen Fox: Overall strategy.

Pete Neubig: See, he's asking because there's lots of them. There's lots of mistakes y'all make out there. But we're just going to go over 1 or 2 here.

Stephen Fox: So so one of the biggest mistakes I see are people saying I've been posting on social media, and 99.9% of the time I'll ask them, okay, and how many leads do you get from that? And they go, I don't think I get any. There's a reason for that.

Pete Neubig: It's brand. It's brand equity. It's brand name equity. Oh, God, I know. If you have no idea what you do with your marketing when you say that.

Stephen Fox: If you're a company that's very established, you have a large following already on social media and you're posting, I get it. You just want to stay in front of people that already know about you. That's fine. If you're going out there and you're newer or you don't really have any social following, and you're thinking that going and posting is the first thing you should be doing, you're wasting your time. The reason why is because the way that social media platforms make their money are through paid ads. They want you to advertise to get exposure. So you can even look like this was probably about five years ago, Mark Zuckerberg came out and he flat out said, we're not giving exposure to people that are posting organically on Facebook, and that's because that's not their business. Their business is making money off paid ads. So if you're going out there thinking, I'm going to open a Facebook account and post five times a day, and eventually the owners are going to start to find us. It doesn't work like that. So that that is a big mistake we see often because a lot of people think like, oh, I'm doing social media.

Pete Neubig: Social media, like LinkedIn. And that's the same for, for Instagram and stuff like that. And Tik Tok.

Stephen Fox: Instagram the same. Linkedin is a little bit better with giving exposure. There are newer social media platforms, so they still are trying to get more people using it, so they'll actually give it a little bit more exposure to people that are just organically posting. But Instagram is the same type of thing. so so that's one big mistake. We see where people are like, I'm doing social media.

Pete Neubig: You know, posting three, four, five times a day and they're not getting any bang for the buck.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. generally, social media is like the last place you go to for marketing a property management company. It's just not the right platform.

Pete Neubig: It would be better to take some of that some money and invest in a commercial and put it on and put it on Facebook like an advertisement.

Stephen Fox: If you're running ads to it. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Okay.

Stephen Fox: Yeah. But but that being said, I still wouldn't recommend starting off by running ads on Facebook. Generally recommend focusing in on search engines to begin with. So Google, YouTube, those are the two largest search engine in the world. And then once you're really dominating those, that's when you can start to focus on social media. And where social media can really be powerful is as a marketing tool. So let's say you have a lot of people find you finding you via Google, via YouTube. Now you can run ads to people that have visited your website specifically. So retargeting ads are if you've ever been on Amazon or Nike.com, you're looking at a product, you leave. You start seeing ads.

Pete Neubig: All of a sudden it comes on your Facebook feed.

Stephen Fox: Exactly. That's retargeting ads. You can do the same thing, but to rental property owners that visited your website left it. And if you don't do anything to stay top of mind with them, they'll likely never hear from you again.

Pete Neubig: Right.

Stephen Fox: What you want to do is you can run retargeting ads, and that's where social media comes into play.

Pete Neubig: Got it. So you got to get a bunch of people to your website first, right? Build that audience and then use the Facebook or social media ads to retarget them.

Stephen Fox: Exactly. Now second common mistake we see is so many people's websites. Well, a so many people's websites are talking primarily to a tenant rather than a rental property owner, which should be your target audience if you're looking to manage properties on behalf of third party owners. But even for ones that do start to target owners. We see very often where the first thing you see on the site does not specify the market you service. So I was talking to someone yesterday and right away when you got to the site, it said something along the lines of like, I can't remember the exact tagline she had, but it was something along the lines of like excellence in property management. And I scrolled through the site and I was like, I have no idea what market you service. And we see that all the time where you don't realize it because it's your business.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. You're so close to it. Yeah.

Stephen Fox: Exactly. But make it super specific. If you service whatever it is. Tampa, make sure that up top before anyone has to scroll. It's super clear that your property management company that services the Tampa metro area.

Pete Neubig: If you're listening to this, first thing you should be doing is go to your website right now and seeing if you have your service area.

Stephen Fox: Yeah, it's it's like something that's so obvious. Yet because you're so close to it, you don't realize.

Pete Neubig: That's right. So somebody is looking on their website, did not see their location. They realized they need some serious help. How do they how do they reach out to you, Stephen?

Stephen Fox: So they can always go to our website at. upkeepmedia.com. On that page, you'll see a form you can fill out. Book a time, and then a member of our team will reach out at the time that you booked. Well, we offer what we call a property management lead gen session. Our goal for that call is just to give you as much value as we can. Whether or not you like work like us or not, that's fine. Our goal is that when you leave that call, you learn something. So on that call, we're going to do research beforehand and we'll give you insights into like what your competitors are doing to bring on new properties. We'll show you where your company is currently positioned from an online standpoint, and then we'll give you recommendations that you can walk away with.

Pete Neubig: And that is free?

Stephen Fox: All for free.

Pete Neubig: Wow. Okay. What is that again? How do. How do we get there?

Stephen Fox: Upkeepmedia.com/growth.

Pete Neubig: Upkeepmedia.com/growth. And if you are listening to this, you're not a NARPM member. Shame on you. narpm.org. Or call them (800) 782-3452. And if you need a remote team member to help with social media posting or any kind of marketing assistant, marketing SEO, getting lead, getting reputation out there, if you get those all property management leads, get them right on right there, real quick. go to VPMSolutions.com. If you want to talk to me personally about it, shoot me an email pete@vpmsolutions.com. Stephen, thanks so much for being here. See you everybody.