A Podcast | Alex Karafiloff

Pete Neubig: Okay. All right, here we go. Welcome, everybody to the podcast. I'm your host, Pete Neubig. We like, like every show. We have another great show for you today. We're going to talk about AI and property management. Is it a trend or transformation. And we have our guest Alex Karafiloff. I said that right Alex.

Alex Karafiloff: Yes. Yeah that's right.

Pete Neubig: So Alex, is a recognized expert in property management innovation, known for helping agencies modernize their operations, stay ahead of legislative shifts, and drive scalable growth through technology. He's currently serving as the BDM for iProperty Express. Alex has been instrumental in the adoption and rollout of Inspection Express 360 AI, which is a market leading platform that uses AI to streamline inspections, reduce end of tenancy disputes, and create new efficiencies for property managers. His work has helped property management businesses cut inspection times by up to About the 75% reduced vacancy periods and improve asset protection for all landlords. So we're going to get into all of that with Alex on how that all happens. Alex, thanks so much for joining us today.

Alex Karafiloff: My pleasure. That's, that bio makes me sound super good.

Pete Neubig: And that was only a third of what you sent me. So, there's even a lot more there. So give us kind of, the cliff notes of your story. Let's get everybody to know a little bit about you. So I always laugh when I'm on podcasts and, like, I'm 55 years old. Right? So, like, tell us, you know, give us three minutes. I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll do 50. You know, I'll do 50 years in three minutes. But so give us your cliff notes, story.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. So, pretty much, my background, I started off my career pretty early on when I was 17 or 18, in property management. So I actually, come from a property management background from Australia. And a couple of years ago, I joined Inspection Express as a BDM in Australia helping a lot of agencies streamline their inspections with our software tools. And most recently, as of a couple of weeks ago, I've relocated to the United States, to do the same here with, property management companies. So I'm based in California, everyone who's probably listening from California knows we've had a recent legislative shift with, inspections and security deposits. And so now moving to move out. Inspections are now mandatory if you want to, claim a tenant security deposit. So I'm here, working with Californiagencies, and we have another rep who's working with agencies throughout the United States and really just showing them how AI can transform their property management business. And in terms of time savings. So moving to move out inspections are, you know, quite a necessary document, in property management, especially if you want to claim security deposits and if there is damage to the properties. And it's really good to obviously have that for your landlords. And so basically what we do is take what is a typically 2 or 3 hour task, doing a move in and a move out inspection and cutting that down to about 35, 30 minutes.

Pete Neubig: All right. So I'm going to talk all about how that actually happens. But I gotta ask, being from Australia, when I first got into property management way back in the day, back in 2000 and like '12, met NARPM in '15. And the big the big discussion point back then was, oh, Australia is so far ahead of the states in property management. And, so I gotta ask you, now that you're in the States, you're working with US companies, has US closed the gap on that? Like, do we have the technology, the expertise now that Australia has, or is Australia still, you know, light years ahead of us in the property management game.

Alex Karafiloff: I definitely see some similarities between Australia and the US now in terms of technology, I think it's come a very long way. I think there is still a potential of a bit of a gap there. I think there's the reason for that, though, is because Australia is a very highly legislated, country when it comes to property management. So there are a lot of requirements and it's very skewed in the tenants favour in Australia. And so I think we've had to really adapt with our technology and utilise our technology to its fullest extent to be able to adapt to all of this legislative shifts in Australia. And I'm seeing the same thing here in the US now. Like we've seen it with in California, Arizona, Colorado is looking at tightening legislation. So there's a very much a domino effect and a shift within the industry. And I think there's, definitely a huge conversation being had in the United States property management space about AI and technology now, which is super exciting. So, you know, that's why we've chosen to expand to the United States because we've really seen that opportunity and that shift, within the US. So yeah.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. You're like in mini Australia with California, you know, the legislations that they have and we all know that once something happens in California, it kind of has this domino effect starts on the left coast, and it kind of works its way across the United States. So. All right, so let's dive in. Can you explain a little bit about how the AI 360 works and what makes it different than the traditional inspection solutions out there?

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. So, I'll start off with what makes it different, like just a bit of a summary. Essentially what makes it different is our technology maps every single centimeter of the property. So you're taking a 360 camera and placing it in the middle of each room, and in six seconds, it's taking a 360 degree image of that room. So it's capturing every single little inch or centimeter of the property in its condition before a tenant moves in. Then AI comes in and it actually makes commentary on the condition of it. So it generates a written report identifying the features within the property and then identifying the condition of those features. So it makes it different because it's making the inspections so much more accurate and in depth, but within 75% of the less time.

Pete Neubig: So I still have to have a person go to the property though and take the photos. Is that accurate?

Alex Karafiloff: Correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You send out a person to take the photos. They are the property for, you know, 15, 20 minutes. You know, if we're talking about a three bedroom, two bathroom house, they're there for about 20 minutes. They put the 360 camera in the middle of the room. Takes that photo in six seconds. They can then take up close images of any particular damages or internal of cabinets and things like that. And then the AI does the rest of the heavy lifting. That's for the move inspection.

Pete Neubig: Got it. So let's just stay on there real quick. So on the move inspection, I go in there and I'm using the AI 360 app that's not just on like a regular iPhone or Android or something like that.

Alex Karafiloff: Correct. Yeah. So it's the app that's on the iPhone or a lot of clients actually take an iPad as well to the property, because you don't need internet connection to operate the software. So you don't need internet connection to take any of the photos or anything like that. It's only when you want to generate AI comments that you would need that internet connection, which can be done from your computer in the office. So in theory as well, what people are doing is they're sending out whether it's, you know, maintenance people, cleaners, field inspectors, depending on the size of the company to take the images, then that's getting synced in live time. You can sync that back to a desktop, where a property manager can view that 360 inspection, and they can generate the AI comments from the computer and edit the comments as well.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay. And then it keeps all that stuff in line. So now let's talk about the move out real quick. If I do I'm guessing I'm doing very similar. I'm just going in there taking the  shot of the room. And if I have anything that's damaged, I can take a picture of it. one of the things that, it's been very challenging for all these inspection companies and I don't know if you've cracked the code on this, but, when I have a move in and a move out, it doesn't give me side by side. Like I have the move in and report. I have to move out. Report. I gotta kind of review both reports. Does AI actually, look at the condition of the property for the move in, the move out, and it does an analysis for you on what's damaged, what's not damaged. And can I see the pictures side by side. Is that is it? Does it work that way yet, or is it we still building that technology?

Alex Karafiloff: No, it definitely works that way. So we're there, which is really exciting. And we've been doing that for, you know, the last couple of years as well. So the way it works is our software will show you and prompt you where to place the camera based on where you place it in your move inspection, so you can have a completely different person do the move out inspection, but place the camera in the same position because our software shows you where to place it. you take that photo and then it automatically pairs those together. So you have that side by side whilst you're doing the actual report. So you're able to see in live time a before 360. So you're move in 360 and compare it to your move out 360 as you're doing the inspection. Our AI reads those images and it generates a written side by side report for you as well. So it will identify all of the issues that it notices between the move in and the move out inspection. So it does that for you. But then when the report is finalized, you're left with this side by side split screen walkthrough, which you can send to anyone, your landlords or your tenants. So it's a link that you can email or text message. And you literally have a split screen view side by side of your move in and your move out in a 360 walkthrough. And it also pairs it, your comments with your move in comments as well.

Pete Neubig: Can I can modify those comments. Right. So the AI has the comments and if I want to make adjustments to them, I can make adjustments to them before I send the report out?

Alex Karafiloff: Correct. Exactly. Right.

Pete Neubig: So not only do you save time with the field tech going out there and taking the photos, but you're also saving time for the property manager that's that has to review these for the move in and move out.

Alex Karafiloff: A hundred percent. Yeah. and you're saving time on the entire move out process, right. Like you're saving time when it comes to disputing deposit, security deposit deductions and things like that. You're saving time when you're sending things to your maintenance people of what needs to be fixed. Like, you can just send the report to say XYZ needs to be fixed and it saves that time. It also really helps with just reducing the amount of disputes that you have over security deposits. You know, we're looking at the moment about an 80% reduction in security deposit disputes when using this type of technology.

Pete Neubig: Let's talk about maintenance first. Then I'll talk about security deposit disputes. So, one of the challenges that are out there for property managers is I get the report I have to write down, like all the things that are kind of wrong and then send that over to a crew, and then they have to give me, you know, they have to go out there a lot of times because for whatever reason, the photos, videos just don't they, they want to go out there, which of course costs time. Right. So now I got to go out there and then I have to call that maintenance guy 14 times to get my quote right. Meanwhile, I got the landlord breathing down my neck. Hey, when we. When can we start the project type stuff? so by doing this, do you find that the maintenance team has enough information where they can basically give you a quote right there on the fly without having to go to the property?

Alex Karafiloff: 100%. And we've seen that with property management companies, you know, across the world, both here in the US and in Australia and New Zealand, where we are, where they utilize that for the maintenance. They even utilize it for when they're, for the ongoing management of the property. Right. Because you can do the 360s for an annual inspection as well if you want to. And if you have this 360 report, that's a 360 walkthrough digital twin of the property that you have on file for the entirety of the tenancy. So even for the ongoing management to save time with maintenance, you can also send a copy of this 360 walkthrough to your to your tradespeople. so both yes. With your move in move out report, but also with the ongoing management of the property, you save a lot of time.

Pete Neubig: I'm going to file that too. I want to talk about that a little bit more in depth as well. the annual. But I want to talk about security deposit. But before that, you know, there's an old saying give an inch and they want a foot. So I'm going to go for the foot here. I'm going to ask, and, so will AI, based on the condition of the property, will AI be able to tell me typically what is owner and what is tenant responsibility? And then would it give me a basic pricing that so that my team knows, okay, if this guy comes back with this quote, I know it's in line or not in line. And I know that's a lot to ask for, but I'm shooting for the moon here.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah, 100%. And look, we're shooting for the moon as well. And that's where I think that comes in with the topic of, you know, what's still to come with AI and what can be, you know, continually and further developed. So that's something that we've seen as a potential for development. But it's not necessarily where AI is at the moment, you know, because when you're looking at pricing and costing.

Pete Neubig: I mean, you got to worry about where are you located, right?

Alex Karafiloff: Exactly.

Pete Neubig: Even not just state specific, but even city specific. so I get all that, but does it at least break out or... I guess the first phase of that would be breaking out. Oh, this is typically tenant responsibility. This is specific. This typically is own responsibility. But will we get there anytime soon, you think maybe in the next 30. Next year or so?

Alex Karafiloff: I definitely think so. I mean, we have that capability within the software now, but it's on the property manager to determine that still. So you can. When you're, identifying these issues, we have something called tenant action items and maintenance items. So two separate buttons within the software. That is where the tenant action items, it will automatically split off and send the list to the tenant. That needs to be done. And the maintenance will automatically be landlord responsibility. So there's that I guess foundation there at the moment. but yes, again with further development, definitely something that we're looking at.

Pete Neubig: That'd be so cool when it gets there. So do you recommend, so, where somebody gives me a 30 day notice they're going to move out at the end of the month. Do you recommend going in after they move out and doing the move out report, or do you recommend going in beforehand? I'm assuming afterwards. Right. Because you don't know what damage they do beforehand, but I just thought I would throw it out there.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. So, definitely the move out inspection after they move out because that's your, I guess, your final document, something that's in California part of this new legislation, is being able to give the tenant, having to give the tenants, an option for a pre move out inspection which I also think is really smart in terms of operations doing the pre move out inspection. You know and that's where in our software you go through, you essentially identify all the things the tenants need to fix or clean as part of their move out inspection. You identify that under the Tenant Action Item button within our software, and when you finalize that inspection, it will automatically send that tenant an email with a to do list of all the items they need to fix or clean. Now, the good thing about that is.

Pete Neubig: The challenge we have is we're doing it after they move out, right? So that's the challenge. So do you have, where the tenant can download this software on their phone and they can do their, I guess, pre move out inspection. And then the property manager company can say okay based on your pre move out inspection, these are the tenant responsibility items.

Alex Karafiloff: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So you have the ability to send the tenant a link to do a tenant assisted inspection. So you can do it either for your annual inspections your semi-annual or a pre-move out inspection.

Pete Neubig: I love it okay. All right. So let's talk a little bit more about the security deposit disposition. Because that really is a big challenge in our industry right. I know when I own my property management firm, You know, we get people all the time, you know, disputing security deposits. we did everything we could to, you know, to try to mitigate that. so how does the AI 360 mitigate that?

Alex Karafiloff: It mitigates it by with the 360. It removes the gray area of deposit disputes. You know, typically disputes come from at the end of the day, one, one party thinking that their opinion or their perspective is correct, and another party thinking that their other their perspective is correct. Right. So that's where we get that. The only reason why there are different perspectives is because there's no clear picture of the properties before and after condition. You're relying on traditional still images which are subject to interpretation. Right? Like I can be looking at 20 blank, 20 photos of a of a blank white wall from my move inspection and not know where damage is located.

Pete Neubig: Right.

Alex Karafiloff: In terms of the property where the 360 you're getting this really holistic view of the property before and after. But also the other thing is, is that with this technology, you're able to tag up close images of damage from your move in, and your move out on top of the 360 to give context of where damage was located. So that's why it really helps with, I guess removing that dispute factor, because it removes that gray area.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Plus, you have a whole synopsis of each room, right?

Alex Karafiloff: Exactly.

Pete Neubig: So now, if I'm a resident, I'm looking at it and I see. Okay, well, this is a tenant responsibility. I go to that room and I see side by side that photo of the 360. And then a synopsis of how the room was and the synopsis of what the room looks like now. It makes it pretty clear that, yeah, that hole wasn't there or that mark wasn't there. that is my responsibility.

Alex Karafiloff: Exactly, exactly right. And that's why we've seen that reduction in security deposit disputes. Because, you know, you're able to very clearly tell that picture and you're not wasting time typing up emails and trying to find photos through your records and going through all of these archive. You're literally copying and pasting a link and sending it to the tenant, because it's done and it's generated for you.

Pete Neubig: Yep. Alright. And so on the maintenance side, it allows me to get the maintenance team out there much quicker because they have a much better understanding of what needs to be done, to the property because of the way the images are. Does it do video as well? Can I take little snapshot videos of like a leaky faucet or something like that? Would I be able to do a little video to show that?

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah, absolutely. So our software has the capability to do those videos, and you can also tag those videos on top of the 360 photos as well.

Pete Neubig: Sweet. And this also allows me to get my security deposit disposition done quicker. Tell us how.

Alex Karafiloff: So when the AI generates the list of issues, it's very easily like you can just click in and write, like an estimated cost of what the issue is. And when you generate that report, you've got that only where the issues are in a very tabular form. And in the last section the right hand side, you've got your move out comments with the estimated of all the costs to fix the things. So it's already tablelist for you. And you can very clearly see that, you know, walls in the living room will cost $600, flooring in the bedroom will cost $500. And essentially what you're claiming in your disposition is there already for you to then.

Pete Neubig: And if you can get the quote faster, then you can actually put like almost like real numbers in there versus like, this is what we think it is.

Alex Karafiloff: Exactly. Exactly right. And also especially because in some states as well, there's that such a limited time frame that you need to be able to provide the tenants quotations of what the work needs to be done. So for example, in California you have a 21 day turnaround time.

Pete Neubig: Yeah I know. And I think Washington it's like less than that. I think it's like 14 days or ten days or something crazy.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. Yeah. So you know, we're working with pretty hard time constraints, almost impossible really when you take into account having to do these inspections in pen and paper and go through all of these archival records of the property and then get the quotations out and send the tradespeople there to quote it as well, before you can send it to the tenant. Like ten, ten days is is virtually impossible.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, it really is. Does AI 360 have any kind of integrations with any of the, AppFolio or Buildium or Rentvine of the world?

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah, we integrate with Rentvine and Rent Manager at the moment which is great because these reports will automatically save, back into those softwares, as well as the maintenance that you actually report within the inspection will automatically feed back through into these softwares as a draft work order. So I can log the maintenance as I'm doing the inspection, finalize the report. Not only does the report automatically save, but the maintenance is also there for the property manager to log into RentVine or Rent Manager and send off the work order immediately.

Pete Neubig: I mean, this is so simple. Like the property manager could actually give this off to a remote team member, and a remote team member can literally look at each one of these reports. Click, click the buttons, get it to the property manager. The property manager has to do a once over right. Just verify it and then send it out. And then the remote team member can literally get it to the turn team and then manage the ticket from there.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah, exactly. What it's doing is it's just trying to simplify the process and remove dead time from the process.

Pete Neubig: All right. So you mentioned the annual inspections and the pre move out inspection. Let's talk a little bit about those. One of the challenges that we had with our company was getting those scheduled. And so we outsourced it. So that just the scheduling part was really difficult. So our, our policy was you had to do an annual inspection I think it was like nine months after the lease start date. And if you didn't do an inspection, then we would not renew the lease. We would basically give you a 60 day notice. And so, you know, you couldn't renew the lease unless you did the inspection. And even with that, it was still very difficult to get that scheduled. Now, we used a company called Onsite Pros and they did a fantastic job of doing all that. So talk to me about how you get these residents like what are some tips and tricks to get the residents to do that annual inspection, especially if they're doing it themselves? Because I hate when the when the residents do their own inspections because I feel like it's given the keys to the insane asylum to the insane people in the, in the asylum. So talk a little bit about, like, how we can overcome some of those challenges.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. So one of the things that I started coming across is incorporating these tenant assisted inspections as part of resident benefit packages, which I think works really well. And, you know, having a, I guess, a reward scheme in the sense of a lot of tenants, you know, a lot of people, yes, work from home, but they've got meetings, they're in the office. A lot of people don't want a random property manager going through their property and going through their belongings and not going through their belongings, but, you know, it's a privacy thing from them. So if you... it's all about the phrasing of it of, you know, really phrasing it in, you know, you've been a good tenant, you've paid your rent on time as a result, you know, we want to give you this option for a more convenient way of doing an inspection and incorporating it into, you know, the RV Pay, for example. The other thing is also relying on software to send reminders as well to these tenants. So one of the things that we do is, when you send the tenant assisted inspection off to the tenant, you can set how many reminders they get and when they get it. So you can literally get an email sent to the tenant to remind them twice a day or, you know, once a week to do this inspection. And that's all via email as well. So you can pull up an audit trail and you can see if they've clicked on that email as well. So you actually have a lot of insights to it. The other thing as well is having a software that really has those requirements very clearly stipulated within that tenant assisted inspection. So one of the things you said is like giving the keys to the insane asylum to the to the patients. Right. The thing with us is you as a property manager set the requirements. So you can say, I need five photos of your kitchen cabinetry, for example. You can add yes or no questions in about you know, are there any leaks within the property, things like that. They complete it. It gets sent back to you, the property manager, to review. If you're not satisfied with it, you can ask for amendments really easily. You can click a couple of buttons, resend it to the tenant to say, I need more information the bathroom. For example, you know you haven't provided enough photos that we needed, or you haven't provided photos of the areas that we wanted to see. So please review it.

Pete Neubig: So they don't use the same methodology where they stand in the same middle of the room. And because they don't have the 360, so they're actually going out and taking photos themselves?

Alex Karafiloff: Correct.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Correct. and so you're trying to use the carrot. I was using the stick. Right? The carrots. Like you're a great tenant. Keep doing this. Mine is like, if you don't do this, You're not going to get renewed time, right? So I guess you.

Alex Karafiloff: Either one could be effective.

Pete Neubig: Either one could be effective. Alright. And then the property manager can review it, and then if there are items on that annual inspection that is not resident related, you can then create a work order right from there as well. Or do you have like does it automatically create the work order you have to go in, create the work order and send it to your maintenance team.

Alex Karafiloff: You'd go in and create the work order and send that to your maintenance team.

Pete Neubig: And then if there are tenant tenant responsibilities that are on there, we can click on those ten responsibilities and send that to the resident for them to solve.

Alex Karafiloff: So you would you would send them a separate email in that regard. If you're doing the inspection yourself, then you have that ability to just send it directly. Like if you're going on site.

Pete Neubig: They're doing it, you're reviewing it, and then you're letting them know, hey, these four items you need to take care of, these are your these are your responsibility.

Alex Karafiloff: Correct. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay. Alright. And then, is it the same concept for the pre move out. They take the photos. Is it basically the same process as an annual inspection as it is to pre move out?

Alex Karafiloff: It is I when I, when, when I speak with property management companies and you know from their feedback and also what I suggest is always going out to do the pre move in inspection. you know, because at the end of the day, sometimes a tenant, they won't highlight themselves what they need to fix or what they've damaged. Right. So that's where it gets like that. That whole AI versus human comes in. And you know, when talking about AI, there's always been that conversation of is AI going to replace our jobs? The answer is no, because these sorts of things require a property manager and their expertise on how to evaluate the condition of a property like AI evaluates most of the condition, but at the end of the day, you know, with a pre move out inspection.

Pete Neubig: You still need the human touch. AI just can't do everything. You still need the human touch. 100%. All right. Since you're an AI guy, let me let me finish up with this. Where do you see AI in property management going over the next, you know, five years?

Alex Karafiloff: You know, I think it's an interesting question because the options are limitless in a sense of where AI can go. I think at its core, AI is going to be the new, I guess, assistant to a property manager. allowing a property manager to log in and AI, you know, generates these are your action items. These are your condition. This is the condition of the property now and before the tenancy, like we're already at now. I see it a lot as even the way I personally use it in my role. I see it a lot as a way to summarize things that would typically take a lot of time to summarize, and reducing a lot of that manual admin to allow a property manager to do what they do best, which is managing a relationship and managing investment for their landlords. Like at its core, that's where what a property managers jobs are. In the last, I guess I dare say 10 to 15 years, that role of a property manager has kind of shifted where you are a therapist, a lawyer, a plumber, all of these sorts of things which is not really a property manager. Like we've come accustomed to it being a property manager's job, but at its core, a property manager is an investment manager. They're there to manage the landlord's investment and to maintain that relationship. And we've lost that because of all of these, I guess, legislative shifts. And all of this noise that has been created in the industry due to all this legislation and, you know, this tenant versus landlord argument where it's just kind of spiraled into this, you know, you've only got 8 or 9 hours in the day, but you're spending ten hours in the day doing all of these other ad hoc duties and not actually being able to do the stuff you're best at.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I'm a big fan of, I don't like the term property manager because I think, words matter. And so at Empire, we shifted. We were able to use we didn't have AI at the time. We were able to use virtual team members to do all the, you know, the day to day functions. And we were allowed, our property managers to elevate into asset managers and do all the things that you just said, build the relationships, you know, learn more about the vision of the landlord. Like, are they trying to buy more properties or how much equity do they have like and almost become a confidant in helping them build towards their dream versus saying, hey, I have this $15, you know, challenge that you know, that the owner is upset about and that they're going over like little, minor things. So I want the thinking of the property manager to be the asset manager. And I want that knowledge to be done by the asset management team and then the tasking to be done by the AI and the remote team members.

Alex Karafiloff: 100%. And it benefits everyone. When you have that structure. It benefits the business because you're able to then, obviously grow the amount of doors or properties you have under management because you're giving advice to your owners and your clients how to expand their portfolio. They're going to bring more managements on. It's more revenue. But from the property manager's perspective, they're able to save time on tasks that aren't going to earn them additional income and focus on tasks that could potentially earn them additional income as well. You know, bringing on a landlord. I know in my experience, I used to get paid a commission for that. Right?

Pete Neubig: Right.

Alex Karafiloff: Bringing on that client. So, you know, especially if those sorts of structures are in place, it's allowing the business to grow, but also a property manager to earn more income and save time on really being that middleman, that punching bag.

Pete Neubig: That's the name of the game, right? The name of the game is how can I manage more properties with less people more effectively? And can I reduce that churn, increase retention, and then of course, increase profits for all? Right. Once the company is making money, then in theory filters down to all the team as well. Alex was great having you here, man. if somebody was interested in learning more about AI 360, how to get in touch with you.

Alex Karafiloff: Yeah. So there's a there's a couple of ways they can get in touch with me. Our website. Our US website. They can fill out a form if they just google Inspection Express US. It'll be taking them to our website to fill out a form if they want more information. They can also email me at alex.k@ipropertyexpresscom. And they can also call me as well. Which my US number is (415) 212-0492.

Pete Neubig: And, if you're listening to this and you are not a member of NARPM, shame on you. Go to narpm.org Or give them a call at (800) 782-3452. And if you are listening to this and you're like, man, I could really use a remote team member to look at my review, or inspection reports, give us a chat, give us an opportunity. Go to vpmsolutions.com. Or you can email me directly at pete@vpmsolutions.com. Alex, thanks so much for being here, buddy.

Alex Karafiloff: Thank you so much, Pete.