A Podcast | Tim Hubbard

Pete Neubig: Welcome back, everybody to the NARPM radio podcast. And as promised, I have Tim Hubbard, founder of Corzly. Tim, thanks so much for being here.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah, it's great to be here, Pete.

Pete Neubig: All right, so tell me a little bit about how you started Corzly.

Tim Hubbard: Sorry. I broke up a little bit there. How I started Corzly?

Pete Neubig: Yep.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. So, Corzly started, really, I guess over a decade ago. I've been building my own portfolio of short term rentals for about 15 years, and several cities, several countries, and along the way, I was building a team to help me manage all the properties. And I also started a podcast about six years ago talking about quick, actionable advice, how I was managing my portfolio from thousands of miles away. And a lot of people reached out, asked us if we could manage their properties. And while it was never the original intention, we we started doing that several years ago. And so fast forward to today, we we manage properties in ten countries over a couple dozen cities. We do everything virtually. And so of course, we like to think of ourselves as the core operating center for anyone running a short term rental, a short term rental property management company, or boutique hotels where we're the ones in the back pulling all the levers, pressing all the buttons and making sure they get expert results with, with, with no headache. That's our whole whole mission.

Pete Neubig: So, If I own a single family, long term property management company and wanted to get into short term management, I can just kind of leverage Corzly and I can get into it pretty quickly. Or is it something like that really wouldn't work? Not enough meat on a bone and it would be more for them to like, hey, here's a referral to Corzly for a investor.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah, no. As a long term property manager, it's a great fit because a lot of times, you know, a lot of the owners in those long term, rental portfolios also have short term rentals. And it's a different ballgame managing a short term rental versus a long term rental. And so we operate on the back end. We have some partners that decide to co brand with us. You know they want to talk about our expert team and how we've been doing this for a long time. And then we have some partners that just white label us completely. And so they they start accepting short term rentals as part of their management portfolio. We charge a discounted rate. So it allows those partners to basically make the difference between what they charge their, their clients and what we charge them. We essentially handle the whole operation. And the beautiful thing with existing property management companies is that they already have, on the ground teams. Right. They usually always have maintenance, and some, some form, of housekeeping, which is the only other piece of the puzzle that we need to to work with someone effectively. So, yeah, I think it's a great fit.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I would say, man, I mean, you got, how many countries did you say you have properties in right now that you're managing?

Tim Hubbard: We're in ten countries now.

Pete Neubig: Ten countries. So you have to find local talent at each one of those countries, at least for maintenance and for housekeeping, I would guess. Right?

Tim Hubbard: You do, yeah. It's essential. And that's actually why we call it a partnership. So, you know, we realize this early on that those are crucial elements. A lot of people have that piece already in place, or they can find it relatively easily. But then handling revenue management, handling the marketing across ten plus different sites online and juggling all these different software programs and support communications. There's a lot going on outside of the on the ground operations. And we do help coordinate the on the ground operations too. So we use other software to help, confirm check ins and check outs and turnovers and all those things. So we really only need those contacts and then we can take off from there.

Pete Neubig: So if I'm listening to this and I own a property management firm and I want to get into short term. There's so many factors that, you know, that kind of block me from going into short term. We just talked about like, you know, made service and it's a concierge business, right? With long term rentals, we're not a concierge business, right? We're like, yeah, we'll get to the heater tomorrow. Not like we'll get to the heater in like three minutes. Right. So it's.

Tim Hubbard: Right.

Pete Neubig: For business. So, do you guys use your own software or do you click in with, like, some other softwares, likeBuildium or Rentvine or, or Rent Manager or something like that? Or does Corzly have their own software program?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. Good question. So we use a whole bunch of different programs. I mean probably like 15 or so. And that's one of the challenges with our industry. Unfortunately there's not like a perfect property management solution like there is in the long term rental industry. There's some pretty good ones, but they all seem to kind of be missing pieces. So we use a whole bunch of those. We connect them all together. We also have a couple of our own in-house developers, where we've kind of pieced together pieces that need to be there to help us make better decisions. but we don't, like, actively sell our own software or anything like that. You know, we're we're adapting to whatever the best options that are out there. But it is different software. So, you know, it's just like buildings designed for long term property rentals. we have a similar PMS software for short term rentals, which helps us combine calendars and helps us handle guest communications and take payments. And, you know, all those fun things.

Pete Neubig: Now, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges of managing short term rentals?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. It depends. you know, there's a lot of... for some of the wants to grow a portfolio, which are the type of partners we love working with. We work with a lot of individual homeowners as well. But, and let's just start at the individual homeowner side. There's a lot of different pieces. So the performance of a property really depends on how many people can see it. And so that means that it needs to be listed in all these different places at the same time. So, you know, a lot of the common ones are Airbnb or Vrbo or Booking.com Expedia. But the challenge is, is that all these different listing sites have their own policies. They have different cancellation policies. They have some are doing guest verifications, some are not. Some accept payments. Some do not. And so that's one of the first challenges, is just making sure that you're visible to where people can find you. and so creating all those different listings, making sure that they're seeing it across the different platforms. And then the second piece is the revenue management piece, which, you know, if we look at like the hotel industry, it's the second highest paid position after the general manager of a hotel, and for good reason. You know, it's if you don't get your pricing right, then your properties don't become visible on these platforms because the platforms want to sell your property. And so, you know, making sure that you understand the market dynamics and all the different aspects of revenue management is really important. And it's a long learning process. So if we if we go back to like the individual homeowner, a lot of times, you know, they might be on like a couple channels, but they're not on all of them. They might be adjusting their pricing, but they're not necessarily adjusting it the most effective way or the most lucrative way. And so they might think that they're doing okay, but it's very possible that they could be leaving 10%, 20%, 30% revenue on the table. and then when we look at owners or property managers that have started to scale, they recognize the importance of all these things. But because there's so many pieces to that puzzle. A lot of times we're trying to do it all over ourselves because we don't quite have the finances to hire a team, and so there's a lot of growing pains when you're growing your portfolio as well. And so a lot of things get overlooked. And so we find with a lot of different property managers, the the guest reviews start to suffer a little bit. And that has a direct impact on revenue. and so yeah, I would say keeping all the pieces together if you have a growing portfolio and then if you're an individual just knowing that you're actually optimizing your property and earning as much as as it can.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I'm thinking in the short term, like reviews are your lifeblood, right?

Tim Hubbard: Can you can you repeat that, Pete?

Pete Neubig: Yeah. I say like, I'm thinking if you're running short term, you know, Airbnb type solution. The, you know, getting those positive reviews is kind of like the lifeblood of your property, no?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. That's correct. Yeah. I mean, and it's really easy to see these days. So we have some, some really great data tools where we can analyze properties, compare them against other ones. And so you could take, you know, let's just say you take like a three bedroom vacation home in the same area with the same amenities. And let's say it has a 4.6 average review score. And then you take essentially the same property, but with a 4.9 review score. I mean, it can literally be making tens of thousands of dollars more. and it's because it gets more visibility on these platforms and it gets booked faster. Further out in the future at higher prices. and so, yeah, really, really important to keep the, the guest experience. .

Pete Neubig: So how do you guys differ? What are some of the techniques or some of the tips that we can do to really increase those reviews?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah, I think reviews may come down expectations. And so where we see issues with reviews, it's where maybe a property is not listed perfectly. Maybe, maybe an owner wanted to hide something that they thought might not lead to more bookings. But we know that everyone checking the property are going to see all those things anyways. So I think the first thing is just having a really clear set of expectations on all these different listing sites, having super fast communication, and so delayed response times. There's a really high correlation with negative reviews. cleanliness is a really big one. And so, short term rentals are different than long term rentals, you know, you know, if someone finds a hair in the bathroom, it could lead to a bad review, but it really comes down to how you handle the guest communication. So we know that we can have issues in the properties. You know, maybe the HVAC goes out. You know, maybe there's some storm or whatever happens. If we handle that from a hospitality standpoint with really good communication, then we can almost always earn good reviews. and so quick communication, but professional, and setting the right expectations, all those things are really important.

Pete Neubig: On long term. You know, a lot of times, the owner, client will say, hey, I need this rented at $3,000 a month because my mortgage and my taxes and my insurance is this. And then we run a comps and we're like, it's $2500 at the max. Do you have challenges when your third party managing someone's Airbnb when they want, like, hey, I want a nightly rate of X, Y, or Z, and then you have to let the kind of like explain to them. Is that a challenge in that in that industry as well? Do you guys run into the same type of challenge as we do?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. Great question. and yes, we do. you know, and it's pretty easy to communicate with our partners and let them know, you know, we can show them market data and say, hey, you know, here's another 100 properties in your market that are very similar to yours. And here's the average daily rate. You know, that's what we go by in the short term rental industry is basically average daily rate for you know, the hotel industry uses RevPAR. and it's really easy to see, you know, if the market is listing their properties at this price and they're getting booked at that price, then that's a good sign that the pricing is pretty close to where it needs to be. But if we're taking owner suggestions that want to be 25% higher and their properties are not getting booked, with everything else being equal, you know they have good reviews in the same area, and it's a really clear indication that they're just priced too high. And so yes, we do have that challenge, but it's pretty easy to communicate.

Pete Neubig: Is it easy to overcome that challenge because you have the data? I've been listening and watching and reading a lot of items starting in 2025. That's really saying, like Airbnb is kind of dead. The short term is is dying. You know, people are converting their short term to long term. is it the case? Is it just like, is it just a media kind of overreacting, or are you seeing, like a kind of the market adjusting?

Tim Hubbard: So it's partially true. And I said partially because there's, you know, I don't know, 3000 individual real estate markets within the US. And each of them have their own supply and demand, you know fundamentals there. And so a lot of vacation heavy markets after Covid saw a huge increase in supply. You know, places like Florida, Destin, Florida or the Smoky Mountains in Tennessee, some typical vacation places, it's easy to see, you know, supply in a lot of those places went up like 30%. You could you know, that's not uncommon over the last three years. and so those those places are more challenging. But there's, there's two sides. So I guess that's the first one. Every market is different. And then every owner is also different in the short term industry. A lot of owners have gotten into it thinking, I'll buy this vacation rental. You know, maybe my family and I will stay there for a few weeks and we'll earn some money back. So it's not actually like 100%, investment decision that they've made. but regardless of that, I got into short term rentals over a decade ago. I have long term rentals as well. But I got into it because they earned more money and I still am in it because they earn more money. But it doesn't mean that every property does. And so if someone wants to get into this space, you know, there's a lot of data available. There's definitely lots of markets out there where people are making really good returns and returns much higher than they could as a long term rental. So hopefully that'll help answer a little bit, Pete. Like, yes, there are some markets that are that are quite challenging, but there's also some markets where people are doing much, much better than they ever could with long term rents.

Pete Neubig: You know, I was surprised. I live in Houston, Texas, which is not a hotbed for, you know, for a lot of people coming here to, you know, vacation. And I was surprised that it's actually a pretty good, from, from people that are telling me it's pretty good, Airbnb market. And it's just a real city. It's like, it's not like people coming here to, you know, to go to the beach or anything like that. We have a big medical center that drives a little bit of it, but I was really surprised that because I always equated Airbnb with Smoky Mountains, Florida or Colorado or something like that. So it's really interesting to see that. Or do you see that some of these industrial cities do you actually buy in these areas, or are you trying to buy more in a vacation type stuff?

Tim Hubbard: No, I actually started in urban areas. And because I started in those areas with long term rental investments, because I like the fundamentals of those areas, you know, population growth, there's good job opportunities there, a lot of things that Texas has going for it. And Texas has been growing like crazy, right. And so along with that, you get a lot of transient type of guests. So different than the vacation rental guests. But maybe they're coming there, to explore the city. Maybe they're coming there to visit family. Maybe they're coming there for a temporary work project. The larger the city is and the larger the population. The more reasons there are for people to come visit that city on a short term basis. And so I think, and they're much less seasonal in general. So the larger the city is, the less seasonality you'll have throughout the year, which is quite opposite from a lot of vacation rental markets. So I really like urban areas. Assuming you can legally rent short term rentals there, you know, that's been a challenge in a lot of dense urban places. but yeah, lots of lots of reasons for people to visit Houston and all the big cities.

Pete Neubig: You got to do your homework before you buy a property to make sure, like the deeds or the HOA will allow short term rentals. Right?

Tim Hubbard: Right.

Pete Neubig: You said you make more money on your short term than you do your long term. I find this everybody I talked to sound the same thing. Even property managers are telling me that when they manage short term, they make a lot more money than long term as well. So would you counsel some some folks to basically convert their long term into short term? I guess, and what would be some of the factors that you would look at before you made that, you know, conclusion for them?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. So, I would. Again, depending on, on the property. So there's, there's some really good tools out there, one that a lot people can go to. It's very inexpensive to use. It's called the AirDNA.co. They have statistics on short term rentals throughout the whole world. Basically what they do is they take online listings from Airbnb and Vrbo and they scrape all this data to come up with, average prices and average occupancy. And so those are the two big things that you're going to want to look at if you're trying to decide, should I turn my long term rental into a short term rental? So you're going to want to pull up your market data, see how many comparable rentals are there. You can narrow it down by bedroom size and amenities, all those things, neighborhood. And then you can see what the average occupancy and the average prices have been. And you'll want to look more than just 12 months back. I mean, I would go back two or even three years, and see how that's doing. And if supply, you know, a lot of these markets are seeing more supply. If supply is going up, but those average prices and average occupancy are also going up at the same time. And that's a really good sign. That means that there's some strong demand there. And if the average daily rate and the occupancy turns out to be much more than you're getting on a long term basis, then I would say that's fair game. Of course you have to furnish it, you know. But aside from that, that those are the really good indicators. Now, if it's the opposite. You know, you look back over three years and you see that, you know, maybe the average price stayed the same, but occupancies dropped 20%. And once you multiply the average daily rate and the occupancy for a 12 month period, you can basically get the projection for a whole year. And so the math is pretty easy and the data is pretty easily available now. I would just... Couple additional notes. Not all long term rentals make for good short term rentals. based on where they're located, you know, so a lot of times people want to sustain short term rentals, even if it's in an urban city. They don't necessarily want to be like way out and suburbs far from restaurants and local events. And so, the company used to be called Midtown stays, actually, and we've changed it to cautiously since we've kind of broadened out, but a lot of my properties are in this midtown sort of area, you know, which is kind of between downtown and between, the suburbs. And, I found those areas to do really well.

Pete Neubig: So let's talk a little bit about Corzly. You said you've been doing it, you've been in this industry for over ten years now. What when did you start Corzly and start doing third party management for folks?

Tim Hubbard: We started, I guess, two and a half years ago now. and yeah, I've, I started with my first short term rental in 2015. So I was really just building my own portfolio for the longest time. But yeah, we've been growing quickly. It's been it's been great.

Pete Neubig: So, let's say I own a PPM firm, and I really do want to get into to short term. And I'm like, this is this would be a great opportunity. So I give Tim a call and I say, hey, man, you know, I want to get into the, into the short term. And you know, I can go reach out to all of my, you know, 300 investor owners to see if they have any short term or want to buy or short term. A couple of challenges that I can see right away because, you know, I've never been in this business. Like let's talk about like just like logistics, like locks. Who takes the phone calls? How do you inventory like all the, you know, because you have to furnish the property with all sorts of kitchenware and and stuff like that. So take, take me through how you would onboard, me as a potential, you know, client, I guess. And then what does Corzly actually do, and then what would I have to do as the management company.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. So we start our partnership once the property is ready to be rented. So as soon as it has furniture in there and as soon as it has photos, we can create the listing for you. You know, make it public. And then we handle all the phone calls, all the messages. Most of the communication for short term rentals happens via message, probably like 90% or more, but we're available 24 over seven by phone, text message, whatever it happens to be. We'll also need your local contact there. And so your housekeeper and we have a program that we use specifically for short term rental turnovers. So part of our onboarding process is going to be creating a custom checklist for your properties for each one individually where it has I mean, it's the thing that I love about this program is it's fully customizable. So if you have a really good housekeeper, maybe we don't need a really long checklist. You know, maybe it just says like, hey, did the guests leave anything at your property? You know, is anything out of place? Did they damage anything? Or if it's a new housekeeper, new to the industry, then we can make that checklist more extensive and maybe even requires them to take a photo of the way that they made the bed up, or that they folded the towels or a photo of the inventory, for example. And so a lot of times, our housekeeper helping with that inventory process to where, you know, maybe there's a locked cabinet or something like that. And so really, once you have a property set up with furniture and photos and you have that contact. We handle the marketing, the guest communication, the payments.

Pete Neubig: Would you guys be able to, consult on, like, hey, this is where you should get this stuff. Like, if I, if I was going to furnish something like, this is the type of lock you should have. You know, maybe it's like some kind of electronic lock, I would guess. So you guys kind of have, like a, I'm guessing a formula, like, here, this is where you go. Stuff like you'd be able to help us out when we get started to, consult with our potential clients as well.

Tim Hubbard: We certainly have recommendations for home automation software. So locks that we would connect with. And we we connect with, gosh, I don't know, maybe 50 or 100 different lock types. You know, where each. Yeah, a whole bunch of them. Where each guess is going to get a, unique code. It expires after the reservation. We can extend it. We can also use it, you know, if a maintenance person needs to enter or anything like that. So we work with the whole bunch of different locks so we can we certainly have a list of like our favorites for home automation when it comes to furniture, since we're so spread out, you know, if you're in the US, there's lots of good places you can go. You know, I've lived in South America, actually, for the last eight years. And furnishing properties down here is like so much more difficult than it is in the US. You know, I mean, you can jump online and you can have your property furnished in like 2 or 3 days, like everything at your door. Unbox it, you know, from the bed mattress to the dressers, you know. So, I would I would go online and look at some of the big retailers online.

Pete Neubig: Got it. One of the challenges, one of the the fears that we have is, damage, right? Long term clients tend to damage properties. Especially they've been in for a couple of years. Which short term, what's some of the ways that we could protect our property from potential damages from guests.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. I'm glad you brought this up, because this is one of those points of the short term rental world that I didn't really realize until recently. So I have long term rentals still. and I had one of our main housekeeper, managers call me the other day, and she said, Tim, I think we should. We should. What do you think about repainting this unit? It was like one of the first short term rental units I ever did over ten years ago. And it just dawned on me that I had never repainted that unit, but it still was getting exceptional review scores. You know, there was no, like, really doesn't need to be cleaned. And so I think there's sort of this, misconception that a short term rental is going to get damaged and that it's going to cost a whole bunch of money, when in reality, a lot of times, our long term tenants, we don't really know what they're doing in there. You know, maybe they're in there with two dogs and they're not supposed to have any dogs, and they're in there for over a year or two years. And when we need to turn the apartment, it cost thousands of dollars because we have to paint everything. We have to patch all the walls. so I think that's just an interesting, point to start off with. But in terms of damage, we definitely have a lot of things in place to handle this. So, we have guest verification. We use an app that requires an ID, it requires a selfie. Our guest experience team has a whole list of things that they look for, sort of like red flags or concerns that they might see in a reservation that comes up. One of the nice things with the short term rental industry, compared to the long term rental industry, is that we have reviews so we can see most our guests have passed reviews where we can see other owners that rated them, where we don't really have that so much in the long term rental world, you know, we run their backgrounds and, you know, get deposits and all that, but we don't have insight into how they actually treat a property. And so that's one of the first places we go to.

Pete Neubig: I'm seeing our next business idea, Tim. Create that for a pool of long term renters. Right. We can create that, that that's yeah, that's what we'll do.

Tim Hubbard: The reviews.

Pete Neubig: The review software for long term renters I like that.

Tim Hubbard: We do take deposits too.

Pete Neubig: And you have a credit card on file, right?

Tim Hubbard: And we have a credit card on file. Yeah. And then on top of that, you know, like some of these listing platforms, like Airbnb, for example, they have their own built in insurance to cover damage if it does happen. and so, yeah, the reality is we actually don't have that much damage because we do a really good job with guest verification. And when we do have damage, we can charge the guest for it.

Pete Neubig: So I find it amazing that, you could have an investor, he has a house that, you know, a short term rental. He can go through my management company, I can go through Corzly, and all of us can still make money because there's so much to be made on short term. Whereas if we try to do that with long term, there's just not enough meat on the bone to go too deep, so to speak on that. So, so very, very cool model.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah...

Pete Neubig: So I think we lost you for a second. I said just a very cool model that you came up with or. Well, you didn't come up with, but that you're now running a full business on. So it's very, very cool, to see.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. You know, we basically built, you know what I would have loved to have ten years ago?. Because getting into the industry, there's one of the big differences, also with long rentals is that, you know, you can have two short term rentals right next door to each other, and one can be making 40% more income, like with everything else being equal. Or you don't have that with long term rentals. You know, if you've got a three bedroom house that rents for $1,500 a month, it's very unlikely that the house next door that's almost identical is going to rent for $2,000 a month. And so it really comes down to your management, even more so with short term rentals B just based on the numbers, you know.

Pete Neubig: So all right man. Listen, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back and put you in a lightning round. All right. We'll be right back with Tim.

Tim Hubbard: All right welcome back everybody. Here we go. Tim, are you ready for the lightning round?

Tim Hubbard: Let's do it.

Pete Neubig: All right, so, what software do you use?

Tim Hubbard: So we use a lot of different programs, but the main ones that we use, I think everyone, if you're out there and you want to do this on your own, you need to use a property management software platform. The one we use is called Host Way. Some other familiar ones or guest or hospitable, but we use one called Hostway. And then also essential is a dynamic pricing tool. This helps us adjust our prices on a daily basis, just like an airline would. We use another one called PriceLabs. And then we use a whole other bunch of different programs there in the middle. But I would say those are the two most important for anyone getting started.

Pete Neubig: All right. Do you use virtual team members?

Tim Hubbard: We do. We are completely virtual. We've got team members in Europe, the Philippines, and South America. and we meet every day through Slack.

Pete Neubig: I love it. And, I'm guessing you do that because, you have people all over the world because you have 24-seven response time, right? So you need you need people to cover 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Tim Hubbard: That's correct. Yeah. So people in different time zones to make sure we cover, you know, every minute of every day. Yeah. That's right.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. What is one piece of advice you would give someone who wanted to start out in the short term rental PM business?

Tim Hubbard: Can you say that one more time, Pete?

Pete Neubig: Yeah. What's one piece of advice you'd give someone who is just starting out in the short term rental PM business.

Tim Hubbard: One piece of advice I would give someone just starting out as a property manager is to make sure that they really understand their market. They can do a good job at setting up a listing, but if they don't get their pricing right, which encompasses a whole bunch of things, it's not just pricing, but it's, you know, when it's priced, where it's priced, how far out in the future it's priced, and then minimum night settings, there's all these different things. So I would focus on revenue management after your listing looks competitive.

Pete Neubig: Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Tim Hubbard: Can you say that one more time?

Pete Neubig: Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Tim Hubbard: I didn't. I couldn't quite. Does pineapple. Pineapple?

Pete Neubig: Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Tim Hubbard: Yes. Absolutely. That's my favorite type of pizza. Actually. Hawaiian.

Pete Neubig: Is it, really? All right. Hawaii.

Tim Hubbard: It is. My wife's too.

Pete Neubig: All right. What is a book you're currently reading or one that's impacted your business or life that you could recommend?

Tim Hubbard: Oh, man, I love reading. There's a whole bunch. I'm currently reading, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, the famous Stephen Covey book. but some other ones that have really impacted, you know, my life and career. One maybe that's a little less heard of is called The Slight Edge. it's by Jeff Olson. I think it's a fabulous book about just doing little things each day. And they have compound effects, but, you know, Think and Grow Rich. Rich Dad, Poor Dad was a huge one for me before I got started with real estate. You know, 15 years ago. Those are some of my faves.

Pete Neubig: What is one challenge you're currently facing in your business?

Tim Hubbard: A challenge we're currently facing is working in new countries. So we're completely virtual. And, you know, we just added properties in Finland, for example, and there's always some sort of minor details that come up. The full operation still works the same way. And all these details we can easily overcome. But there are a few little differences between, different countries aside from the languages. So I'd say that's one.

Pete Neubig: That is so cool, man. So you're managing properties in Finland? I think that's the coolest thing ever.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: All right. Last one. You prefer dogs or cats?

Tim Hubbard: Dogs.

Pete Neubig: Dog guy. All right. You are off the hot seat. Off the lightning round. All right, Tim, if somebody was interested in learning more about you, about Corzly, what's the best way they can connect with you?

Tim Hubbard: Yeah. You can find us at Corzly.com. It's CORZLY.com. And I also have a podcast I've had for almost six years now. I think it's called, Short Term Rental Riches. So you can find it on all the different podcast outlets and also on YouTube.

Pete Neubig: Excellent. And if you are listening to this and you are not a NARPM member, go to NARPM and narpm.org. Or call them at (800) 782-3452. And if you are looking to create a remote team or virtual team, go to VPMsolutions.com or you can email me directly at Pete@VPMsolutions.com. Tim, thanks so much for being here, buddy.

Tim Hubbard: Yeah, it was great being on. Thanks, Pete.