Seller Financing and the Boomer Seller: Why Taxes Make It a Win-Win | Stacey Salyer

A Podcast | Stacey Salyer

Pete Neubig: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the NARPM Podcast. I'm your host, Pete Neubig, the voice of NARPM. And like I say every week, we got another great show. Stacey Salyer is here. Stacey is a property management acquisition strategist and the founder of Slayer's Built to Acquire, trademark, where she teaches property management owners how to grow through strategic acquisition, not door-by-door grind. With over 20 years in property management, 20 years experience in property management, Stacey has been on all sides of the M&A table. She built the first PM company from her living room as a single mother. I actually did hear that story when you were on stage, and that's a great story. She acquired a 350-door competitor with seller financing during COVID, sold for seven figures in 2022, and served as director of acquisitions at Pure Property Management. So she's bought, she's sold, she's helped other people buy. She's evaluated 100-plus companies nationally and ran operations across multiple states. She also hosts the Stacey Salyer Show podcast, which I will be on one of these days. And she is a sought-after speaker, and she has spoken a lot of times at NARPM. Stacey, that was a mouthful, but thank you so much for being here.

Stacey Salyer: Thank you so much. I know it is a mouthful, especially that acquisition strategist. So yes.

Pete Neubig: So let me talk a little bit about this. So you hit a nail on the head with that little intro here. When people hear acquiring, a lot of times they just roll their eyes back and they kind of don't think about it because like, oh, that's for the Pures, the Evernests, the big guys, right? And say automatically the big guys, but you actually teach that it's not just for the big guys. So let's talk about the process that needs to happen for someone who's listening to even begin about thinking about acquiring.

Stacey Salyer: Right, right. Yeah. No, well, yes. And thank you so much for having me on. So I would say, you know, first of all, it really starts with mindset. You know, back in the day when I had my first conversation, that was 2019, late 2019, I had a conversation with a local attorney that said, hey, I'm looking to grow if you know anybody. And honestly, at the time, I was thinking that door-by-door growth, right? Like because attorneys, eviction attorneys help all clients. And he said, he was like, oh, so you're looking to grow your business. Well, I actually know a guy that's looking to sell his company. And I instantly thought, oh my gosh, I'm still a single mom of three and I don't really have a lot of money. I don't know that I'm really that person. I mean, this is in my head. But of course, out loud, I said, oh yeah, of course, I would love to talk to that guy. I could buy his business. Not knowing anything. So I think, you know, for me, it's really about teaching people mindset to begin with, as far as like, hey, let's get past those myths and let's get past your objections that are in your head. Because I think we're all really good at creating stories. I mean, we still do it, right? You know, you might hear something and you create this story in your head about what isn't even really true. So that's what we focus on is that. And then, of course, all the tactical stuff in between. So.

Pete Neubig: So that's, you know, I actually went through that same thing. And what I've found is if you're not ready mentally, you will look at everything on that deal to kill it. Like you become the most proud. It's almost like when you buy your first real estate, you know, like as a real estate investor, if I didn't have my mentor, the first mentor to ever help me buy a property, if I didn't have him, I don't think I'd own a piece of property yet.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: You know, because I would have like you announced it's analysis paralysis. And then once you buy a hundred of them, you're like, yeah, okay. Like, whatever. Like, I know the numbers here and we're going to, you know, we're going to go buy the property.

Stacey Salyer: That's okay. You're back.

Pete Neubig: All right. So we'll cut this. So anyway, so analysis paralysis, I'd go buy a hundred properties and no problem now. So that's where you come in, right? Like that mentor to kind of help me if I was looking at selling or buying, sorry, buying a property management firm to help me, like guide me through that process in a way.

Stacey Salyer: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that, and that is kind of the same thing. And it is, I mean, you just did a great explanation of, of that. So I'm basically your coach, your, I mean, I've called myself like the Sherpa, you know, whatever, right? Like your guide. Get you to the top of Mount Everest, you know, give your oxygen when I know you need it. Because there are a lot of fine details, you know, I think online you see a lot of the, oh, well, what's the, you know, what's the multiple, what's that? Well, that is literally the least important thing in, you know, what, like the whole entire process, in my opinion, you know, there's so many other fine details of, you know, what to look for. I mean, how to even go out and find who might be selling their business or might be interested in selling their business to then, okay, well, let's take a look at the conversation. Like what we, should you be asking? What, what kind of things should you be talking about? What should you kind of like?

Pete Neubig: Let's take all those. You got a lot there. So first is what do I, like, if I am even considering buying a property management firm, what do I need to do before that? Even like, do I need to have my PM firm running pretty efficiently? I would think so. Like, like what are some, do you have like a pre checklist? Like you have to have your house in order first. No.

Stacey Salyer: Well, okay. So that's actually a really good question. And I would say yes. Okay. Yeah. Stacey says, yes, you probably should. However, I actually have three different buyer or three different people like avatars that I work with. So one of course is a property management business owner. And if you already own a PMC, then yes, you should probably have some good operations going because you're going to go out and buy something and you're going to dump on top of what you already own. Two other avatars that I work with as well would be like maybe a self-managing landlord who already manages 10, 20, and they want to go buy a PMC. That particular avatar is going to need to find a probably a better run company to purchase. And then the third would just be a pure investor. Again, they're going to need to probably find an A-plus company, but that who we're speaking to now are NARPA members. Yes. You want to make sure your operations are good and you have bandwidth within your company. You personally have some bandwidth so that way you have time to go out and do these deals.

Pete Neubig: Okay. Now let's talk about financially. Do you have to have a bunch of money to buy something?

Stacey Salyer: No, you don't. That's one of the myths I love to dispel. Again, remember, I did my first acquisition in 2020 right at the start of COVID and it was a little over $350. I had the seller do financing and I put very little money down. I didn't have a ton of money. I had some because I did have a cash producing PMC at the time, but I didn't have millions. I didn't have PE money. I didn't have VC. I wasn't VC backed. You can definitely do that. There's so many strategic ways you can...

Pete Neubig: What's in it for the seller? A lot of times we have this mindset where the seller wants all his money right away. There are reasons why a seller would take on seller financing, right?

Stacey Salyer: Oh, absolutely. One of my soundbites is actually while boomers retire, you acquire. I find that our boomer sellers actually generally prefer to finance the deal, hold the note, because of tax implementation, cut that part, because of taxes and all that kind of good stuff.

Pete Neubig: That's right. They're not getting all that money in one chunk and they got to pay a huge tax on it. Right.

Stacey Salyer: But again, it really just goes back to mindset. I find that if you are telling yourself stories of, oh, it's not going to work because of this, or it's not going to work because of that, well, you really need to get past that. I'm really working hard to dispel all the myths in the industry and then say, hey, come into my world and let me teach you then all the tactical stuff in the beginning, the messy middle, and then close it up.

Pete Neubig: I would think that I'm going to reach out to you prior to even me finding... If something jumps in my lap, yeah, I'm going to call Stacey like, hey, walk me through this. But even then, if I'm even considering this, I should probably call you to get my management company set up, my financial set up, and my mindset set up, right? So now I can actually feel confident and then when something does come in my lap or I'm looking for I could find somebody and then the chance of that going through becomes much greater. Yeah.

Stacey Salyer: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Pete Neubig: Okay. All right. So now I got my mindset. We understand that you don't need all this money to dump upfront that people actually would like to defer taxes and also get cash flow for the next four, five, six, seven years even.

Stacey Salyer: Absolutely.

Pete Neubig: So the people who are selling would love to get cash flow so that they can go live their life and not have to worry about now what are you going to do with all this big money, right? That was a big problem that I had when I sold. I'm like, okay, I got money. Now I got to put to work right away. Right. And I had to pay a bunch of taxes just like you probably had to.

Stacey Salyer: Right. Yes.

Pete Neubig: All right. So now where would I find some folks to acquire?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. This is a fun one. So of course you're going to have... I have what I call two lists. So you're going to have your number one list and that's kind of the obvious. Any property management company in your area, doesn't matter if you think that they're never going to sell, just add them to your list. I would say, go through Google or search NARF. I mean, there's lots of places you can find anybody in your community. And then you really want to start working on your secondary list. I think that's a list that a lot of people don't think about is maybe the realtors that might manage like 20 doors or 40 doors, whatever. The real estate brokerages in your market, they kind of like, what I say, half manage property management companies. Like we all have them in our market. They're not very good. So add them to your list and then start adding other people to your list too, like CPAs, landlord, tenant, law attorneys. Maybe look at joining groups like Rotary or Kiwanis or things like that, where you can kind of get dive into your community to network with other business owners because people know people and it's really just about building relationships.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay. So now somebody comes knocking or I'm guessing you're doing this like a drip campaign. It's not just like, Hey, I want to buy something. If I really want to buy something, I'm going to make an effort. Like we're going to build drip campaigns. We're going to make some phone calls. We're going to make an effort here, right? But a lot of times you make no effort and somebody comes to you and says, Hey, I want to sell. I actually had two opportunities to buy property management firms when I was at Empire and I didn't have a Stacey. So neither one went anywhere because I did exactly what I said. I analysis browsed to death and ended up not buying either one of them, which I think one of them would have been a good deal. The other one, probably not so much, but one would have been a good deal. All right. So now something comes across here. Obviously this could be a whole podcast itself, but give me high levels. What are the two or three things I should be looking at before I even dive into the numbers?

Stacey Salyer: Okay. Yeah. So before you even look at numbers, you really want to ask the seller, well, number one, why do you want to sell? That's going to give you a really good picture. And then two, how's their business set up? Is it a true boomer business where it's just them as the property manager and they have everything in their head? They have no processes. Maybe they have a couple of employees. And then also what, do they have employees or do they have anything documented? Maybe what kind of prop, do they use SaaS products? If they do, what does that look like? And then of course, just door count and what you're, because you can really learn a lot just by those basic questions.

Pete Neubig: And then just get a PMA, like see what the PMA, because we know a lot of these older, a lot of these private manager companies that are not using NARPM don't have any of the systems or a lot of the fees that- Oh yeah.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. But that's not a bad thing. So again, there's, I always say there are red flags, but there's, but even though if there's a red flag, it doesn't mean it's a no-go. It just means that that's a like, hey, stop. And then let's do some evaluation and take a look at what, would that work for you or not? There's like, so there's green, yellow, and red. Red doesn't mean like, oh, just dump it in the trash. It just means, well, okay, is that going to actually work for you? Because the business I bought, remember like 350 doors, it was the seller and a bookkeeper and his- Wow.

Pete Neubig: 350 doors, one person and a bookkeeper.

Stacey Salyer: His PMA was two pages. I don't even know if it was actually a full two pages. So I looked at that though. Some people may have said, oh my gosh, that sounds like a mess. That sounds like a lot of work. And I'm not going to lie. It was a lot of work, but I knew what my dollar per door was on what I currently was managing. And I looked at that count and I thought, oh wow, I have some major opportunity to take the revenue that I'm buying because I was still buying revenue. And then double, triple it based on what he was doing. So he only had a management fee and a lease up fee.

Pete Neubig: Explain that a little bit more, buying revenue, because I think that's really important that people understand that.

Stacey Salyer: Yes. So even though he only had a lease up fee and a management fee, he was still making money every month. In fact, I mean, of course he didn't have any major payroll. I mean, a bookkeeper and himself if he was paying himself, but you're basically buying cash. That's what I tell people. It's like, you're going to have your payment. So you're going to have your payment to the seller. And then of course, if you already own a property management company and you have some good systems and processes and some SaaS products and maybe some team members, you can easily look at that and say, oh, okay, well I can take those and put that into my company. And I'm going to only be spending, maybe I'll just take a number, like let's say 5,000. Maybe I'm spending 5,000 for my monthly payment. And then that leaves me 30,000 that I'm still making a month.

Pete Neubig: And then the majority of that, it gets absorbed with your current staff, team, software, and that 30 grand may cost you another 10, right? So you're making money on the investment. It's very simple to buying a rental property, right? I borrowed this much money at this percent. This is my P&I. This is the rent minus some whatever expense, some other expenses, and then this is how much money I make. It's just bigger dollars, typically.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. It's just another way to invest. And it's really once you do one, it really becomes addictive. I will say most of the people that I know that have bought at least one PMC, they've bought multiple because it's just like investing on steroids. So instead of buying one rental, you're buying another, you're buying a business. And to me, it's super fun and it's a great way to grow your wealth.

Pete Neubig: Do you use different methods of acquiring for different levels of door count? Like somebody with 20 doors, would I use a different solution than somebody with 350 doors? Or could it be one size fit all or is it just everything is case by case and everything is it depends?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. I mean, everything's kind of case by case, but I mean, 20 doors would be pretty easy. That's pretty easy. That's just kind of like rolling.

Pete Neubig: Take me through that. So I have a realtor, 20 doors comes to me tomorrow. He says, Hey Pete, I got 20 doors. Does Texas Lone Star Property Management want to take these on? All right. So I called Stacy. I said, Hey man, I need some help mentally. Let's get this going. And then what do we do for those 20 doors?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. I mean, as far as the process, yes, you're going to still do the same process. Like you still want to do due diligence. You want to make sure that you're structuring it correctly. But I think what would probably be the biggest difference would be like the payout type part of it. You may just end up paying them the whole amount, probably because it's not going to be that much compared to 350 doors. You may structure it to where it's like more referral fee. I mean, you could do so many different things in your contract, but you still want to make sure you're doing your due diligence. And I would still recommend a clawback regardless of your account.

Pete Neubig: Yep. That was where I was going next. So, all right. So yeah, with 20 doors, I could probably just scratch a check. But if I do that, I still want to do like one or two payments, right? Hey, I'll scratch a check and then like 90 days later or six months later, if everybody stays, I'll scratch another check, something like that. So a clawback is when you buy a property management firm and then a door doesn't stay over a certain period of time, like the clawback time. And then what happens is the seller will clawback funds because that door is no longer being managed, right?

Stacey Salyer: Right.

Pete Neubig: The buyer would be...

Stacey Salyer: Yes. The buyer, yes. And everything's spelled out in the contract. So let's say each door is worth 2000, then you would clawback 2000.

Pete Neubig: What are the biggest challenges you've seen on when somebody takes over a property management company, somebody buys it, what's the biggest reason for churn in that? And what is a typical clawback timeline?

Stacey Salyer: Typical is, I mean, again, everything is negotiable, but typical is six months. I mean, as a buyer, if you could get 12 months, that would be amazing. Most sellers won't do that, but you never know. The biggest...

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So what's the biggest reason for like, I buy a hundred properties and six months later, I got 80 left, 20 left me, right? 80 of them stayed with me, 20 left. What's the main reason why those 20 would leave?

Stacey Salyer: Probably not being very strategic on the front end. So you need to be really strategic and very clear with the process of like, who's going to be doing what between the buyer and seller. So if the seller isn't on board with a really good transition period, that could really wreck your process. If the buyer is being too aggressive with the new contracts, that could not go very well. So I usually say, hey, we'll bring them in, kind of fold them into what you're doing, but you don't want to just immediately like change fees and change up their lives, like the client's lives, because they're used to a certain way.

Pete Neubig: Especially if it was a two-page contract, they need to go to a 12-page contract, right?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. And I had a specific strategy on how I did mine, and again, it worked pretty well for me, but you just really have to really pre-think kind of like what could happen. And that is where I wouldn't say that you focus on stories, but you do focus on particular landmines that could happen. And so that's where, like when I'm working with people, I can help them think through that process.

Pete Neubig: So the most successful transactions has the seller kind of involved, a defined involvement to help with the handoff, and then the buyer not changing anything right away. So how long, like if let's say in this case, you got the two-pager, how long did you run that two-pager for before you started making changes? And what were some of the changes that you had to make just to survive, to make sure that they made money for you?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. So I did that one a little bit different. I actually bought the corporation. So I bought that as a sole purpose because of the way that he had it set up, that two-pager wasn't really assignable. And it was just a strategic thing that I did. And what I did was I got the seller to be very involved in the transition. And so he would make phone calls. We just kind of did it like month by month. I didn't move everybody over, but what I essentially did was I had my own contract under leading edge, and then I modified that to mirror-ish his contract. I mean, my contract was still longer, but the biggest thing was I didn't change the fees. Now, what I did do though, is I went and I had conversations, especially with kind of the bigger players. So you really want to look at, okay, well, who owns more? I mean, there's a lot of strategy behind that. But I did say, hey, at leading edge, this is what we do offer our current clients. Would you like us to do a yearly inspection on your property? This is exactly what it looks like, and this is what we charge for it. And so they could opt in. So I had an addendum. So I was able to make more money kind of immediately without changing fees immediately. And then I just moved them over to my company, and then I eventually closed out that other company.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So basically lots of communication, don't make drastic changes, especially to what they're paying for. Create some add-ons, build that trust over time. And then my assumption is probably after about a year or so, they started going on your typical pay structure and your lease, because now they've built some trust.

Stacey Salyer: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: All right. All right. So now I'm doing this, I'm buying the property management firm. I know what the callback is. You said something about assignment of contracts. So let's talk a little bit about that. And then you also talked about you can buy contracts or you can buy the corporation. So let's talk about the two differences there on... First, let's do assignment contracts. So in certain states, some of the contracts are not assignable, correct, just for one.

Stacey Salyer: Correct, I think that's what I meant.

Pete Neubig: So what happened? So talk about that, what a good strategy is for stuff that's not assignable, because now I have to get them assigned a new PMA, right?

Stacey Salyer: Yep. Yep. I mean, really, that's where you really need to have a good relationship with the seller. I mean, the buyer and seller really are going to have to work together, but...

Pete Neubig: Could you even in some cases have the seller send them the new PMA, like with a new company name, or is that the buyer's responsibility, you think? Or is it just all, again, depends?

Stacey Salyer: I think it just all depends on how you want to do it. I think in the case where I think the seller, the more that the seller can be on board to talk up the new buyer, the better, of course. And it's really a win-win for the seller, because if you have a callback, right now I kind of get all confused. I'm like, who's who? Who's on what base, right? Yeah, right. But yeah, really it's just that good relationship. So I think that, but that goes back to the very, very beginning of building that relationship. It's not just...

Pete Neubig: Now, if the contract is assignable, it makes things a lot easier. So you should look at your estate to see if the contract is assignable, because then they just assign it under, in this case, leading edge, it's done. So if it's not assignable and it's a bigger deal, you may want to buy the whole corporation like Stacey, like you did. So now let's talk about that. What's the main reason why you would not, or you would buy a corporation?

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Well, I know there's a lot of talk out there and advice to say, no, don't do that. I mean, obviously you're buying the whole thing, right? I mean, so you're buying all the history of everything.

Pete Neubig: That's the main thing, the history, because somebody can turn around and sue you. I think what do you have, seven years in certain states to sue somebody for real estate? Yeah. Yeah.

Stacey Salyer: So, but I guess you roll the dice. I mean, anytime you're in business and if you're a true entrepreneur, I mean, you're always rolling the dice like every day. So you just got to roll it and hopefully it works out.

Pete Neubig: So if you could buy the corporation, you would probably, let me say this, you would suggest potentially buying the corporation if a contract weren't assignable. That makes it easy. I don't have to sign the contracts and it helps me on the back end.

Stacey Salyer: That does make it easy. Also too, like, let's say you're a smaller operation. Let's say you're a smaller PMC and you, but you have a vision and maybe somebody wants to sell their company and they're a well-run company. Maybe they already have some staff and they've got all the things that maybe it makes more sense to buy the corporation.

Pete Neubig: And then you have their website and you have their history and all that good stuff.

Stacey Salyer: Yep. Yeah. So there's, yeah, there's really no technically right or wrong. I mean, I know out there, usually people will say it's wrong to buy a corporation, but that's not necessarily correct.

Pete Neubig: I'll give you a bit of inside baseball here.

Stacey Salyer: Yes, please do.

Pete Neubig: We'll go deep into this in your, in your podcast. When I sold Empire, they were adamant that did not want to build a corporate, they did not want to buy the corporation that they did buy the, the, you know, the, the agreements. And it was a pain in the butt to, you know, get them all assigned and think if they didn't get assigned over a certain point of time, they just agreed. Like we put something out there, like you agree that it's, you know, under the new PMA or something like that. But what was it? It was two years later, I get a doorbell ring. And I open it and I got served for papers. And it was from Empire. It was a resident and I got sued for a million bucks. Oh, to be continued on Stacy Salyer's podcast.

Stacey Salyer: Yes, we will definitely have to be, go deeper into that. And one thing that people don't talk a lot about is insurance and making sure that you're carrying a tail and all that kind of good stuff.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, you just hit the punchline.

Stacey Salyer: Well, don't say that because they're going to have to come listen to the whole, the lore. If you guys want the lore, the real deal, then you're going to have to come listen to Pete on the Stacy Salyer show.

Pete Neubig: But that's really important on the seller side, right? When you do sell, you want to make sure that you are covered with insurance over there. All right. So what are some other, I mean, we touched really high level on a lot of stuff. Is there anything else? We got a couple more minutes here. Is there anything else that you can think of that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you?

Stacey Salyer: Well, I mean, we just kind of touched on insurance a little bit. I think the biggest...

Pete Neubig: Got another question. Okay. Is there somebody that would lend money?

Are there lenders out there for buying property management businesses?

Stacey Salyer: Oh yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite ones, they're NARPM on partners, Live Oak Bank, Jordan Coleman. In fact, she's been on my show recently. You guys can go download that episode and listen. And yeah, they do. They actually specialize in lending for property management companies.

Pete Neubig: See, I'm today's years old when I learned that.

Stacey Salyer: Oh, you didn't know that?

Pete Neubig: I should have known that. No, I didn't. I didn't. I thought it was like a regular bank. So the banks that specialize, so not to throw shade here, but Enterprise. Does Enterprise do that as well? Enterprise Bank?

Stacey Salyer: They may. I think they might. I'm not really sure. But yeah. And then, of course, you can get an SBA loan from a local bank or other banks as well. I mean, I work with Jordan.

Pete Neubig: Interesting. With the folks that you've worked with, what's typically down payment? Is it like buying a house, like 20% down? Or is, again, everything's negotiable? Everything's negotiable.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. I bought mine. I put 6% down.

Pete Neubig: 6%. And Live Oak Bank doesn't care? They don't force you to put 20% down or anything like that?

Stacey Salyer: Well, okay. So I did seller financing. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: So as far as- You do seller financing, then you can do anything.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah, it's like, it's a wild, wild West. Um, yeah, but as far as the bank, I mean, the bank is going to have different qualifications or parameters, but I don't know that they have a specific amount you have to put down. I mean, they're going to look at everything. They're going to look at your business. They're going to look at the business you're buying. They're going to look at all the debt service and cashflow, all those numbers that the Jordan can explain. Um, that's not my area.

Pete Neubig: Okay. So I'm glad I asked that because I did not know. All right. Well, anything else that I should ask?

Stacey Salyer: Oh, well, I mean, there's a lot. And I know people love to talk about acquiring. It's kind of like the sexy topic. Um, if this comes out before NARPM Broker Owner, I am actually doing a presentation at NARPM and broker owner. So come check that out. It's called, uh, The Millionaire Myth, how anyone can acquire. So, um, I love it.

Pete Neubig: Well, Stacy, um, if somebody has heard this pod and they're like, man, I need, I need some help with my mindset or I have a deal on the table. Um, I need somebody to help me walk through this. What's the best way that they can reach out to you in contact?

Stacey Salyer: All right. So I have my website, StaceySalyer.com, my email Stacey@StaceySalyer.com.

Pete Neubig: And it's Stacey S-T-A-C-E-Y.

Stacey Salyer: Yep. Yep. And it's Salyer, S-A-L-Y-E-R. So I'm sure it'll probably be all in the show notes. Um, but yeah, you can find my podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts and I'm on all the socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube.

Pete Neubig: And has a really good newsletter, so you should sign up for that one as well.

Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Thank you.

Pete Neubig: So Stacy, thank you so much for being here. If you are listening to this and you get value and you're not a NARPM member, please go to narpm.org or call them at 800-782-3452. We'd love to have you become a member. They are working on NARPM 2.0, where they are offering so much value, including data legislative and a new marketplace that they're going to be unveiling. And if you need a VA to help you when you buy these new companies and you need some help because you're growing, go to vpmsolutions.com or shoot me an email. I love to hear from my tens of listeners. Pete@vpmsolutions.com. Stacey, thanks so much for being here. See you everybody.

Stacey Salyer: Thank you. Have a good day.