A Podcast | Angela Holman

Pete Neubig: Welcome back everybody. As promised, treasurer of NARPM and a friend of mine, we served together on the board way back when, and she is still on the board five years later. Angela Holman. Angela, thank you so much for joining the show.

Angela Holman: Thank you, Pete. Thanks for asking. Thanks for having me.

Pete Neubig: So I've been trying to get you on the show for a while, and every conference I see you, I'm like, hey, you gotta be on the show. And you're like, yeah, sure, just let me know. And it's been like a year since I've been asking and I'm like, alright, we finally got to get Angela on. So the first question I like to ask you, Angela, because this is a NARPM podcast you have, as I said, in your in your intro, you've given back, you're treasurer now. So you're on a pathway to hopefully, president. Right in another couple of years or a year or two. And you've, you've been on the chair of national boards and all that good stuff. So two part question one is, you know why? And two is how has it affected your business whether positive or negative?

Angela Holman: Okay.  so yeah, I've done a lot with NARPM. I've been a NARPM member for 24 years now.  I've served in various capacities, whether it be locally. I was one of the founding members of my local chapter, served as like, president in that chapter.

Pete Neubig: How many times did you serve president in your local chapter?

Angela Holman: I served, I think it was 3 or 4 years in a row, and then it was coming up on the next term and I was like, you guys, we gotta switch. We gotta... you're tired of me. But so I'm very familiar with that. For all those chapters, presidents that have served multiple times, I've been there myself.  nationally, I was on member services for, I believe, 12 years and chaired member services two of those years. I was on finance committee a couple of years. And now obviously as treasurer back on that. Did Broker/Owner committee one year. So.

Pete Neubig: Okay. So that's a lot.

Angela Holman: That's run the gamut of various areas. And the reason is because I get just as much out of it when I'm there. I'm connecting with other people. I'm connecting with NARPM members. I'm getting information about the industry through the meetings and stuff. So, it's giving me as much knowledge as I'm trying to give out, if that makes sense. So I would say, anybody join up, volunteer, get involved because it will benefit you personally through connections and people. And then professionally, I have obviously through my NARPM connections, my business has grown. I got in a position one time where I was approached to buy somebody's portfolio, and it was back in the time we didn't have the the community where you could pop in a quick question and get some answers. This was before that time. So, you know, I picked up the phone, called a couple of NARPM people. One of them happened to be in the car with another friend driving to a conference. They put me on speakerphone. They talked me through things to ask, things to do.  and I was able to successfully buy that portfolio, which of course, in terms of bottom line, obviously added to my profit. So in terms of just pure profit NARPM can help you with that. Being involved can help you with that. The connections you make can help you.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. The old the old adage is true, right? It's not just what you know. It is who you know. It is who you know. Relationships. Yeah. You have trust already there.  and so now you are able to take up on an opportunity.

Angela Holman: Well, and it's nice because you develop those relationships across the US. So, you know, this happened to be an event happening in my own backyard. I didn't want to reach out to one of my other NARPM friends in my own backyard about this. I needed to go somewhere else. And so, because I had built up my NARPM family, I was able to reach out to people.

Pete Neubig: You know, when we were at,  I think we were in training at,  in Virginia Beach, I think. What is that? That's not training. That's, uh...

Angela Holman: Strategic planning.

Pete Neubig: Strategic planning.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Uh, a storm hit North Carolina, which is odd. It's not the storm from last year which devastated North Carolina. It was a big storm that hit North Carolina. And one of the NARPM members called Gail. Gail Phillips, the executive director, and I just happened to be walking by and I had just come through hurricane Harvey here in Houston, and we had done a whole bunch of stuff on, you know, on navigating that hurricane. And Gail, like, literally says, hold on. Hey, Pete, can you talk to this member about how you guys handled the hurricane? You know? And so next thing I know, I'm on the phone for the next 45 minutes just telling them everything we did on how to prepare, on how to get the messaging out, how we did, you know, checks, you know, property checks, life checks, right? Tenant resident checks, things of that nature. And so that right there is, you know, the value in NARPM, uh, being a member and also being on the board.

Angela Holman: Well, I mean, even if it's not life events like that. It's, um. My daughter is currently in Phoenix going to school.  she's been living on campus in an apartment, but they're looking to find a place off campus for next year.  I've made a couple of calls to my buddies down in Arizona in the Phoenix area saying, hey, my daughter's looking. Can I connect her with you? You know, so it's even just those sort of things where you can connect with people and you can be confident that. I'm confident I'm putting her in the right hands when looking for a rental, because I'm going through a NARPM family member. So yeah, it's great.

Pete Neubig: Now, one of the one of the things that people say is, man, I would love to give back, but it takes a lot of time. When you were on that chair for membership, how much time a month do you think you actually spent?

Angela Holman: So when I was chair of member services, we had one meeting once a month for an hour. And then beyond that prep time or emails of things. You know, you might spend another hour a week or so. We're not talking significant amount of time and all the committees meet through zoom, so it's easy. You don't have to go anywhere. You just commit that hour to be on those calls, giving feedback.  you know, running through ideas of how to better the organization. So, if you have 5 to 10 hours a month, you could easily serve and, and do it within that time frame.

Pete Neubig: So being connected allowed you to grow your business through an acquisition. Did it allow you to,  run your business more effectively?

Angela Holman: Oh, absolutely!

Pete Neubig: Uh, because I think I talked to,  I think it was Bart when I talked to him, and he, you know, I don't know if it was in the podcast or offline, but he said that, you know, his business suffered a little bit when he was president because of all the travel that he had to do.  are you finding that at all, or are you finding that your business is running just fine and growing, even if you're giving back to NARPM?

Angela Holman: So for me, the way we're structured here,  I have not had that issue. Now, Bart, when he was president, it was a little different format. What how much those guys were traveling,  versus what we're doing now. But I have an amazing staff who have been with me long term.  I think one of my staff members just passed her 17 year anniversary. My newest, if you want to say that, staff member is coming up on her 12 year anniversary. So these are people that have been here, know my process, know how I do things, and I can walk out and know they have it without any hesitation. So, last year when I was Central Region, RVP, you know, and I would go to chapter visits or down to Texas style. I had no issues walking away, walking out the door and having any kind of hiccup in the business. Probably most people didn't even know I had left for the week.

Pete Neubig: How long can you leave the business? Can you leave for a month?

Angela Holman: Oh, I don't think I could leave for a month just because of some of the functions of what my duties are within the office.  I could probably leave a good 2 to 3 weeks, but I think I probably still need about a week or so in the office every month.

Pete Neubig: Okay, so 2 to 3 weeks you can leave. And when you come back, when you come back, let's say you go on vacation for two weeks.

Angela Holman: Mhm.

Pete Neubig: I know when I went on vacation for like literally two days at Empire, I was putting in 12 to 14 hour days to catch up. What kind of catch up time are you talking about here?

Angela Holman: Normally if I've been gone, I'm going to relate it to a week because I've never taken a two week vacation, because maybe I'm a workaholic, I don't know. So if I'm gone a week, I can come back and I can be caught up within the first day. So within eight hours I can catch up on whatever had happened that week that needed.

Pete Neubig: Two weeks, two days, then one day a week, probably one day for every week.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: That's pretty solid. So let's talk about how you got there. Right. So, how many... I know you're in Grand Junction, so it's kind of a I'll call it a tier two market. Right. It's not like not one of, like Houston, LA, Chicago, anything like that.  how many units are you guys managing? And then let's talk about your structure and then how you got there over time. Right. Because I'm guessing when you started, you had all the hats. You were wearing everything. Right. So talk a little bit about that journey and how you found people and how you got to the point where now you're CEO of your company.

Angela Holman: So when I started. Well, right now we're just under 400 doors. And we're talking single family, some multifamily stuff. Not large, like fourplexes, some duplexes, stuff like that. 

Pete Neubig: So still, I mean, still single family, one 1 to 4 units.

Angela Holman: Yeah. Yeah. And when I started, obviously started with zero doors, and yes, wearing all the hats. And, I was very intentional about my process from the start. I was very intentional on what kind of properties I would take. And even though I had zero doors, just because somebody came to me with a property that.

Pete Neubig: Really.

Angela Holman: Not something that would fit what my plan was, I would not take it. So I did not take doors just to just.

Pete Neubig: Okay, I gotta ask, going back in time, would you change that just to get revenue in the door like.

Angela Holman: No

Pete Neubig: No.

Angela Holman: No. I think because...

Pete Neubig: Did you have other income coming in at the time?

Angela Holman: No.

Pete Neubig: Were you flipping properties or nothing? No.

Angela Holman: No.

Pete Neubig: Wow.

Angela Holman: I was living off of savings when I open doors, and I felt like I was setting a standard for how I wanted my business to run, and I didn't want to compromise that standard.

Pete Neubig: Wow.

Angela Holman: So I was very intentional about properties that I took. What area of town they might be in? Stuff like that.  so I grew and and I never...

Pete Neubig: I'm laughing because you and I were completely opposite. I took. I was like a hooker, man. I took anything that came by. You got 50 bucks. I'll take it, right? I mean, I had to wear a bulletproof vest and carry my nine millimeter with me. The first 2 or 3 years I was in business.

Angela Holman: Right. So when I started, this was again before, like a big social media blitz or anything. I went to Sam's Club, got a big jar of candy. I think they were York peppermint patties, if I remember. Taped my business card to each piece of candy, went to the local sales offices, went to every desk, and started putting candy with a business card. That was my advertisement. I have never paid, so to speak, for advertisement. It's always been word of mouth for me, but I think I can do that. Being in kind of a smaller community, it just can, you know, you have more, connections with people. Being in a smaller area. So that's how I started growing. That's how referrals started coming to me, and that's how I started growing my business. Once I got to, I believe it was around 70 to 75 doors, that's when I needed at least some help part time. Like answering the phones. You know, if I was out showing or doing a move out inspection, something, I needed some help, so I hired a just a college girl part time at that point. And then once I hit over a hundred, I was like, okay, I really need somebody that. Hey, if I'm down and out, if I have the flu for a few days, I need somebody that can be in office. So that's when I hired my first full time person.

Pete Neubig: Okay. That makes that tracks. That makes a lot of sense.

Angela Holman: Yeah. And so then once I had her in place and it was somebody who. In Colorado, we have to be licensed. So it was somebody who got licensed. So,  if I was out for some reason, they still had that capability because of the license.

Pete Neubig: What did you have that first person do? Was it just like, just an assistant? Like basically anything I couldn't do. Or did you kind of build a job description around all the stuff that you didn't like to do? Like, how did that wasn't that.

Angela Holman: I didn't like to, but what I functioned her to do versus what I was, was not wanting to take my hat off on yet was leasing stuff. So she scheduled showings and went out to properties and did the showings. She was processing the applications. All that sort of stuff was under her umbrella at that point in time.

Pete Neubig: Wait. Did you have at the time, did you build an org chart at the time, or you just kind of winged it as you went?

Angela Holman: Just sort of winged it as I started going, you know.

Pete Neubig: So now you have 100 doors, you have a full time person there doing showings and they're and they're basically backing you up when you're down and out. I'm guessing if you're a workaholic, you didn't take very many vacations at that time.

Angela Holman: No, I still wasn't taking a whole lot of vacations, but I squeezed some in.  but then, of course, once you've got that first full time person on, you have to grow a little bit more to, you know.

Pete Neubig: The seesaw effect, right? Like. Yeah, yeah. Like you hire somebody and now. Oh, wow. The profit is really not there enough for me to make money. So now I gotta go grow the business. Now I gotta stress my team out. Then I gotta go hire somebody else. And now I gotta go grow the business.

Angela Holman: Right.

Pete Neubig: Okay.

Angela Holman: So we started growing a little more.

Pete Neubig:  Same way through referrals?

Angela Holman: Yep. All through referrals.

Pete Neubig: Okay.

Angela Holman: Then I hired my next part time in person. Just office administrative duties, phone answering, filing. You know anything in office that I needed done was her job. At that point in time was when I kind of did a little analysis of, how far do you want to go with this? You know, how much more do you want? And one of the jobs that is not my favorite job, and I wanted to get rid of that hat, was maintenance coordination. I did not want that hat anymore. So I specifically grew enough to hire a full time maintenance coordinator.

Pete Neubig: Now you have two full time people and a part time person.

Angela Holman: I have two full time and a part time.

Pete Neubig: Okay. And about how many are you, Like 150 at this point. 125?

Angela Holman: I was getting close to around two when I hired that other full time person.

Pete Neubig: Okay. Again. Yeah. So you basically you basically have one person for every hundred unit. Plus you have the half, plus you have you.

Angela Holman: Yep.

Pete Neubig: Yep. 1 for every 50.

Angela Holman: So that's kind of where  again, once you hire that next person like you said, the seesaw effect. Now I've got to build just a little more, at least to kind of cover salaries and all of that. So I'm done. I'm not going to grow anymore. We're a happy crew here. I'm happy sticking close to 400.

Pete Neubig: And what do you got? Four people working for you now full time.

Angela Holman: So. Nope. The two full time and a part time. And myself.

Pete Neubig: Wow. Okay. Alright. Now, which hats do you wear in the business other than CEO?

Angela Holman: So my hats. I take care of anything financial. So I'm dealing. Um. And anything with owners for the most part, other than if it's maintenance related.  so if owners have question about their statements, that's all coming to me. My degree is in accounting. So numbers for me is an easy thing. So, it made sense to stick the financials with me and deal with owners in terms of financials. So that's really my wheelhouse. And then, just onboarding any new owners is also.

Pete Neubig: So are you still doing the sales you're still onboarding or do you when you onboard, do you keep the property until it's stable, or do you give that to your property manager or how do  you handle that transition?

Angela Holman: It's instantly goes. So if it's a vacant property, it instantly goes to my leasing agent as, hey, this is open, this is ready. You know, start doing your thing to get it rented up.

Pete Neubig: All right. So your positions that you have then, you have do you still have the office person then. Is that the part time person?

Angela Holman: So my part time is an office admin. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Okay. Then you have the maintenance coordinator.

Angela Holman: Mhm.

Pete Neubig: And then do you have is it a are they called property managers or what's the other two positions?

Angela Holman: So uh the other position is a leasing agent. That's what I call her. Other property manager or leasing agent. And then  just myself doing the financial stuff.

Pete Neubig: Got it. Okay. So, any resident phone calls come in, the leasing slash property manager handles all of that.

Angela Holman: You know, it's a team effort. So, you know, the phone might ring, and the maintenance coordinator is the one available to answer it. And the tenant has a question about their when does my lease expire. She'll pull it up and answer. It doesn't necessarily have to get shifted. So we all kind of pitch in team effort to to try and help and answer calls and, you know, resolve issues if tenants come in.

Pete Neubig: Works well, when you're, you're, shortest tenured team members 12 years.

Angela Holman: And that's what I. Yeah. And that's exactly it once you have that kind of longevity,  it creates great process for your company to flow through and great trust in those employees and what they can do for you.

Pete Neubig: So you're kind of maintaining you want to stay right around that. Let's call it 400, for lack of a better word. Right. So you're around 400. When I talk to property managers across the country, I'm hearing that. That they're actually a lot of them are losing doors. They're retracting. They're not growing. They're actually retracting a little bit. Are you seeing that in your market, in your business, or are you kind of stabilizing? Because we all have some churn, right? Whether people sell or whatever. What kind of churn rate are you seeing in your market?

Angela Holman: I have little to no right now. Um.

Pete Neubig: Okay.

Angela Holman: I have last year,  And in part, unfortunately, it was due to legislative issues in Colorado. I had a couple of owners that did not want to. They wanted to sell. They wanted out of the game just because of some legislative.

Pete Neubig: Did they get totally out of the game? Just curious, or did they move to a different, different market?

Angela Holman: No, they did not go into a different market. They totally went out of the game and chose to invest other ways. But that was a few, I think, last year I had. I think it was like six units that I lost specifically because of that. But, otherwise I don't have anything  flipping over right now. It's very stable for me.

Pete Neubig: There's a guy, Steve Crossland, he's retired now, but he was out of Austin and he used to maintain, like, I think, between 100 and 120 properties. And every year he would go trim it back down to 100 properties. He'd go to a 120 and trim it back down. Do you do that at all? Do you look at the end of the year and say, these are my class? D? I'm guessing most of your people have been with you for a long time, but do you trim it down because you've created these referral programs or are you right now just giving off all these leads to other PM firms?

Angela Holman: So we're not. We have occasionally trimmed. But I think again, because initially I set that standard of the type of property and even the type of owner. I don't want an owner who's going to micromanage me a lot. You're trusting me to do a job. I'm the professional. Believe in me, you know? And if you have an owner that fights you on that, that's the ones I've gotten rid of. It wasn't because of their property. It was maybe the owner.  but it's happened very few times, so we don't. That's not a regular process for us. And I think part of it is because of the standard set as to what type of property I want, what type of owner I want. We just don't have that issue. So it's it's not something that we do, but yes, I get calls a couple a week of people. Hey, will you manage stuff? And, you know, I find out what it is and determine if I really want it.

Pete Neubig: Are you just more selective now? Like it used to be here. Like, you know, now it's now it's really like it's got to be really, really. Um.

Angela Holman: Yeah. And it's. I don't want now I'm. I'm really selective in the ones that you get the calls where, you know, I have a job transfer. I don't want to sell my house or I can't sell my house because I'm, you know, the price I paid versus what? I could get it, you know? Whatever. Those are not the ones the incidental landlords I don't want. I want intentional investors. They just understand the business so much better. So I'm really particular about what we'll take. So a lot of the calls I get, I refer over to other members in the area.

Pete Neubig: Makes sense.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: So, it's funny because I literally built my business complete opposite way. And, uh, you know, I probably made more revenue than you did early on, but I definitely had a lot more chaos in my business mid and late term than than you did. So you can stick to your guns and really build a business the way you want. Uh, I think it reduces a lot or reduces churn for one. And I think it reduces a lot of chaos in the business.

Angela Holman: Well, and I think it depends on your lifestyle, too. You know, I was, um. I have a daughter. I was a single mom. I needed to have some flexibility and I think when you grow to a big number like you had, it just takes more of your time. It just does. And I think if you have something a little smaller, it gives you a little more freedom in, in your lifestyle choices. So it gave me the opportunity to leave when there was a PTA meeting or leave and go to basketball games and that's what I wanted. That was important to me.

Pete Neubig: What do you think? Being in a smaller market, what do you think some of the challenges that you guys see that people, like, maybe in, like, in Houston, like a big market don't see. What are some of those challenges?

Angela Holman: I would say some of our challenges are really related more around affiliates or vendors or,  you know, I'm terribly jealous of the people that get to use, you know, on site pros. I would love to have on site pros in my area to help me with, you know, but it's just not. So, we just don't get access to some of the things that some of the bigger markets get, and our pool of potential vendors just local is smaller, you know, we don't have as many plumbing companies. We don't have as many, just general handyman. So you really... Those relationships are vitally important that we really hone in to them and we make sure that some of our vendors know you are our top person. You scratch our back, we'll scratch your back. And and we really value those relationships with them because we know that we're limited on the number of people we can pull from. So that's one of the factors that I would say is the biggest.

Pete Neubig: What about like finding investors or finding properties? Not not that big of a challenge?

Angela Holman: I've not seen that be a problem in our area. We've had no issues getting investors, whether they be local investors, whether they be out of state investors. We have lots of people. We do have a university here in Grand Junction. So there is growth. There is, you know, reasons to have investment properties here. But we have never had an issue finding investors.

Pete Neubig: What about competition? Is there a lot of competition?  For, you know, per capita, like in Houston? I mean, just getting on the front page is is an act of God on Google. Because everybody and their grandmother hangs a shingle nowadays, especially with sales, is kind of drying up a little bit.

Angela Holman: I would say in terms of per capita, it's probably very similar. I mean, you have,  some of the bigger players and the longer term players.  and but man, I notice, you know, I'm driving around town and I see all of a sudden a sign for, you know, mom and pop property manager, somebody new that I've never heard of. I don't know who, you know. So we're the same. We're getting everybody throwing their shingle up, getting into the game. But,  so it's there's some competition out there. But again, it's probably per capita really similar to what you experience.

Pete Neubig: So let's go back to the vendors real quick. How do you like? Because you have to keep them, right? You have to make them happy. Uh, obviously the first the first way of doing that is giving them business. But what are some other what their other anything else that you do like, do you have like an appreciation. Do you do a vendor agreement. Like what. What are some of the things that you do to make sure like do you pay them weekly. Like, like what are some of the tips that you can give other people on how to make sure that that vendor puts you on the top of their, on the top of their to do list, like when they get three work orders. I'm going to go to, you know, Premier first.

Angela Holman: So one of the things that the discussions we have with our vendors is we tell them how many doors we have, and we tell them, by working with us, you automatically have access to 400 properties. You're not having to go out and hustle to do carpet on a one off because, you know, Joe Homeowner wants to do new carpet. You're going to see him once and he's done. I have 400 units. I'm going to come to you every time. So we make sure they know how many properties we have and that they're our go to person.

Pete Neubig: By the way, if you're listening to this and you don't have 400 properties yet, that's always a good number. Always inflate a little bit.

Angela Holman: Right.

Pete Neubig: Now I'm not condoning that you lie, but maybe just, you know, just inflate just a little bit.

Angela Holman: I got you,  so. So then beyond that, we don't pay them weekly. We pay them once a month.  And they're all very aware of that. But Christmas time, they get Christmas gifts from me.  they get gift cards to eat out. They get some of them. I know, I happen to know them because we've worked with them. I know they're hunters, so I'm getting them gift cards to Sportsman's Warehouse so they can get gear. So I try and make it personal based on the knowledge of what I have for them and just as a show of appreciation.

Pete Neubig: And do you have a vendor agreement that you have them signed or do you do I don't.

Angela Holman: I don't  I think some of my, my ways. And maybe it's because of the market I'm in.  it's still, you know, a handshake means a lot here in Grand Junction. So, not to say that everything is done on handshake, but we don't have vendor agreements.

Pete Neubig: Interesting.  I know that was one thing that we did do, but we did a lot of what you're saying. We, you know, we did something around Thanksgiving because no one does things for people on Thanksgiving instead of Christmas time. We just have a big potluck. But we also did an onboarding for them, almost like a training session. Here's how we do things. Here's what we want you to do. You know, before-after photos in, sending invoices like within 30 days. And we did pay weekly, if you got your invoice in by Tuesday, it got paid on Friday, which they really liked.

Angela Holman: My only concern with that and I and I mean, you guys have to be licensed in Texas. So like for us because of having to have funds in an escrow for an owner like, you know, you can't commingle the funds. It made it sense to me to only pay them, you know, like I pay.

Pete Neubig: When the rents came in.

Angela Holman: Yeah, I pay them on the 10th once rents have kind of come in and before I pay my owners.  so that's why I always set it up that way.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. It's smart, it's smart. And again, if as long as you have, like, you just got to set expectations.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Right. As long as you have those expectations set, then, you know, it's like what, communication with our residents, communication with our owners and communication with our with our vendors.

Angela Holman: Exactly.

Pete Neubig: Do you guys do self showings over there? Do you use Tenant Turner or ShowMojo or anything like that?

Angela Holman: We do not. We still meet tenants out at property.

Pete Neubig: Seriously?

Angela Holman: Yeah, we do. And I and I think I'm going to go for a couple of reasons on that. Again, I think just the smaller towns, smaller feel. It's just that customer service skill.

Pete Neubig: Is Grand junction, pretty easy to get around?

Angela Holman: Oh, super. I can be from one end of town to the other in 20 minutes if I need to.

Pete Neubig: I can't even get out of my neighborhood in 20 minutes.

Angela Holman: Right. So it makes sense that we could still do it. I get to.

Pete Neubig: Provide that wow experience, I guess.

Angela Holman: Yeah. Well, and I think real estate is a customer service business as much as we want to make it more automated. You know, you wouldn't have somebody that does sales just tell a client. Yeah, just go open the lock box on your own and walk through. And and I don't want to do that with property management either. It's still a very customer service based industry, and I want to keep that part in, at least in our company model.

Pete Neubig: Make sense especially if you want to stay at a certain level and you want to give. So you you basically are running a kind of a boutique shop. And if you run a boutique shop, you're going to have less churn, which you're having, and you're going to provide that wow experience. And my guess is that when you have a new owner, you meet them at the house as well if they if they want to meet at the house?

Angela Holman: They'll meet - a lot of them just come in office. But yes, some of them want me to walk out to their house, walk through, you know, give them feedback. But, yeah. Either way.

Pete Neubig: Alright, Anj, we're going to take a quick commercial break and I'm going to hit you with the lightning round.

Angela Holman: Sounds good.

Pete Neubig: Alright, we'll be right back, everybody.

Pete Neubig: All right. Welcome back! Angela Holman, are you ready for the lightning round?

Angela Holman: Oh my gosh I'm a little nervous for the lightning round but I think I can handle it.

Pete Neubig: Alright, here we go. What property management software do you use?

Angela Holman: Oh, Propertyware?

Pete Neubig: You're on property where? Oh, man, I still love property. Where it's such near and dear to my heart.

Angela Holman: I love it.

Pete Neubig: Alright. Sidebar here. What do you think you think RealPage is doing with Propertyware? Are they going to sunset it you think?

Angela Holman: I hope not. I mean I know we've all heard some stuff happening. But they have reached out. They have said they're solid, they're staying. They have told me that they're not going anywhere.

Pete Neubig: They didn't try to move you to Buildium?

Angela Holman: No, they did not.

Pete Neubig: Okay, I heard like, if they took like, I think it was like less than 300, they were like moving them to Buildium. I don't know if it's true or not. All right.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: But yeah, I used to love Propertyware if it was me and I was doing it again, I'd probably go Rentvine, because I just don't trust where Propertyware is going in the future.

Angela Holman: And if I was starting over again and if I really wanted to do the switching, I that's I would look at Rentvine. Seriously.

Pete Neubig: All right. I think I know the answer to this one, but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you use virtual team members?

Angela Holman: I do not. But I know who to reach out to if I ever decide to.

Pete Neubig: Can't imagine who that could be. What's one piece of advice you would give someone just starting out in the property management business?

Angela Holman: Um. Obviously one. Join NARPM, get the education. But I would also say stick with your plan. When you go to NARPM events and you start hearing everybody else's business models and what they're doing, and some of it's great and you can incorporate it, but don't totally shift what you're doing because of what you've heard from somebody else. Stick with your plan. Incorporate different ideas.

Pete Neubig: I like that. Does pineapple belong on pizza? I know how you're going to answer it already, because I saw the way you just looked at me. For those of you that.

Angela Holman: Here's here's what I'm going to say. I personally would not eat pineapple on pizza, but we have a local pizzeria here, we have Palisade, which is close to us, has peaches. And this place makes a peach pizza.

Pete Neubig: That's the only thing worse than pineapple on pizza is probably peach on pizza.

Angela Holman: It is so good. So because I love that pizza, I'm going to have to say yes, even though I wouldn't do pineapple personally.

Pete Neubig: New rule. No fruit on pizza. What was your first job?

Angela Holman: Oh, my first job was we had a small little amusement park here in town. I think I was 14 when I worked there over the summer, and I helped run the amusement park rides.

Pete Neubig: Very cool.

Angela Holman: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: What is something, other than working at and running amusement park, what is something that most people don't know about you?

Angela Holman: I think most people probably do not know I have a love of baking. When I was a kid, my grandmother used to bake and I was the only granddaughter, so I got to spend lots of time with her in the kitchen baking. So it's one of my most favorite things to do.

Pete Neubig: I do expect cookies or some kind of muffin next time I see you.

Angela Holman: Sounds good.

Pete Neubig: If you could have dinner with anyone alive, who would it be?

Angela Holman: Well, here's the thing. So I did just watch Randall's or listen to Randall's podcast. And Randall stole my answer.

Pete Neubig: That's okay. Which I was there, and I don't remember his answer.

Angela Holman: Oh, his his was Michael Jordan.

Pete Neubig: Michael Jordan.

Angela Holman: Oh my gosh. So I was like, dang Randall took who I would pick. So I'm going to go different and I'm going to go a group. I'm not going to pick a a person.

Pete Neubig: Okay.

Angela Holman: I'm going to pick the US men's basketball gold winning medalist from the Olympics.

Pete Neubig: All right. So you get about 12 guys.

Angela Holman: And coaches. I want coaches. I just find us professional athletes and the level of intensity and their dedication to stuff is just fascinating to me and to and then to talk to coaches that coach these people. That would be a fascinating dinner.

Pete Neubig: I think it would be. What's a book that you're reading or one that's impacted your business or life that you would recommend?

Angela Holman: So all my books that I read are just really more just leisure and, and escape, you know. So I don't know that a book has impacted me.  I mean, I've read some business books and I think they all get very dry, but I think people impact me, whether it be, you know, my gym family, my NARPM family, My daughter. I get impacted by other people more than I do a book.

Pete Neubig: Okay, I'll let you off the hook on that one. What is one challenge you're currently facing in your business?

Angela Holman: The thought and the process of planning for an exit strategy. That's what I'm currently starting to think about. And so that would be the challenge in front of me over the next few years.

Pete Neubig: You mentioned your daughter. No interest in taking that over?

Angela Holman: No, no. She's getting her degree in sports and entertainment management.

Pete Neubig: Oh nice. She's gonna live the life you want. You were supposed to live, huh?

Angela Holman: I know, right?

Pete Neubig: What do you prefer, dogs or cats?

Angela Holman: Oh, dogs.

Pete Neubig: You're a dog person.

Angela Holman: Dogs. Labs.

Pete Neubig: And if somebody wanted to reach out to you and just ask you a couple of questions, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

Angela Holman: Just email me angela@premierpropertygj.com

Pete Neubig: PremierpropertyGJ - Grand junction.com.

Angela Holman: Or find me at any NARPM event Broker/Owner.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, you're on the the big board now.

Angela Holman: I'm there. Come grab me and have a conversation.

Pete Neubig: You got it. And, uh, if you want to join NARPM and be cool like the rest of us. If you're listening to this and you're not a NARPM member, get on it. Go to NARPM - narpm.org or give them a call at (800) 782-3452. And if you are looking for a remote team member unlike Angela, go to vpmsolutions.com or email me directly, pete@vpmsolutions.com. Angela, thanks so much for being here today.

Angela Holman: Thanks, Pete, I appreciate you.

Pete Neubig: See you everybody.