A Podcast | Matthew Whitaker

Pete Neubig: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. And as promised, I have Ev1's CEO Matthew Whitaker here. Matthew, thank you so much for spending some of your busy day with us.

Matthew Whitaker: Oh, are you kidding? Thanks, Pete, for having me. I sure appreciate it and excited to catch up again.

Pete Neubig: So the reason why I asked you back on so you were on back in 2023. Um, but the reason why I asked you back on is, if you recall, we were at broker owner. We ran into each other, had like a six minute conversation, and I was really impressed with you had this vision for Evanesced. And it was, I think if I recall, it was 25,000 units by 2025. Was that correct?

Matthew Whitaker: That's right. That's exactly what it was.

Pete Neubig: And then I said, well, hey, man, you basically hit that. What's the next one? And you literally spun out and you have an updated vision.

Matthew Whitaker: We do. Yeah. We, uh, we updated it to 250,000 units by the end of the decade.

Pete Neubig: Wow. Okay, so I really want to talk about that because, you know, when people talk about vision, um, it gets kind of like, oh, well, that's not really important. Or like, I don't really, you know, it's kind of like a business that's a business coach thing, right? So why is it important to have a vision in your mind?

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. I mean, one of the things I found is I grow the organization. The clearer the team understands the destination, the better decisions they make, right? So if everybody's clear on where we're headed, then they can make decisions down within the organization that help us get there as a team. And so if I want to make all the decisions, if I keep the vision in my head, it kind of forces me to make all the decisions. But as the organization grows and today we're over 700 people, I want them to capture the vision of where we're headed, and I feel like they'll just make better decisions that way.

Pete Neubig: Let's go back in time. When you're just starting, You're starting. Was it even Evanesced was the first company name Evanesced?

Matthew Whitaker: It wasn't. The original name was Golden Key. And I always tell everybody it's like a terrible story. But basically we named it after a golf hole at the Masters. And my partner said, well, we can't call it Golden Bell. Uh, so we changed it to Golden Key.

Pete Neubig: Now, what was the original vision when you started Golden Key?

Matthew Whitaker: Well, when we first started, I never wanted to be a property manager. I always told everybody I was never going to be a property manager or a real estate agent. And, uh, so today, I'm obviously both, uh, I'm a broker in five states. So the, the vision was never to grow a property management company. The vision was when we when we were going through the the great financial crisis, um, during the recession, we were just trying to keep the lights on. And so we had 30 rentals that we couldn't sell. And the whole idea was we're going to continue to buy and sell houses. We would sell those to investors. And one of the things that we found it easier to sell to investors if they had somebody to manage it. And so I just started managing those homes. And so, um, when we first got started with Golden Key, it was really a side business. And it was just, uh, it was just something to keep the lights on, pay the bills. And we were trying to make still make money through the GFC, doing deals, buying and selling houses.

Pete Neubig: Literally it was just the support business. I'm going to support it so I so I can close the deals.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. It was you know if you think about it like we thought about it, this covers our overhead and then we can go out and make real money somewhere else. Because I'd always heard you can't make money in property management. That was if if I go back to the, the mid early 2000, you know, 2005, 2006, 2007, all the investor clubs, everything I always heard is that there was literally no money in property management. And so I really believe that until about 20, uh, 2011, 2012.

Pete Neubig: So when you decided to make it a management company, did you have did you come up with a vision at first? Like, did you come up with a vision or did you just kind of ran it at like visionless, so to speak? Like I'm just trying to survive?

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, we have a lot of reluctant owners. I would call myself a reluctant property management company owner. Um, I again, I never wanted to grow the property management company because, um, I always thought, you know, again, there was no money in it. There was no way we were going to be able to scale it because there were no scaled businesses. But in 2013 or 2014, I went to a conference and saw a vision for, hey, why don't we, you know, we could I think we could grow this, like, regional company and, um, and maybe even get some private equity, maybe even get some some sort of growth capital and go out and then grow it nationally. And, uh, and so that's when I came back, I'd also read the book traction, which is by a guy named Gino Wickman. Uh, he he created a system called EOS, which if if you're listening to this and haven't read the book traction, I strongly urge you to do that because, uh, that's one book that changed our life. And so what traction tells you to do. And all this was kind of happening at the same time. But what traction tells you to do is to basically set a ten year vision for your business. And what I have found over the course of, of setting that first ten year vision is you're actually really likely to hit a ten year vision, much more likely than you are to hit a one year goal. And because one year goals can the market, especially when we're we're really tied to the real estate market or the capital markets, you know, the one year goals are sometimes hard to hit, but as long as you're rowing towards the ten year vision, I found that is you're much more likely to hit that.

Pete Neubig: Did you find it easy to, uh, to come up with that, that ten year vision? Because I know some people have a hard time really thinking, I'll say outside the box or thinking really big.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, I think when you set a ten year vision, like everybody wants to do it where it's very comfortable and it's something you feel like you can hit. And what I would suggest is set something that you think is a little bit crazy, almost, and maybe a little bit crazy. Um, what happens is, and I've learned this from a guy named Dan Sullivan, is when you set a really big target, your brain is always trying to solve problems. And, uh, you know, we as entrepreneurs are always trying to solve literally. My brain is constantly on overdrive trying to solve everyone's problems. And for those of you who think we don't have them, we have tons of them. We're we're constantly trying to solve them over here. But your brain is going to either solve the small problem of a small ten year vision, or the big problem of a big ten year vision. And your brain doesn't know the difference between a small and a big problem, so you might as well set a really big vision. There is some risk associated with it, Pete, because if you don't get there, like it's kind of like embarrassing. And honestly, we haven't gotten to 25,000 doors yet, so we're not quite there yet. But what I have found is that if my brain's going to work on a problem, I would rather it work on a big problem.

Matthew Whitaker: And that will enable that will enable me to get way further along than if I set a small, comfortable goal. And I think, I think society, um, is very scared of this because it involves risk, because there's a chance you're going to fail and but there's 100% chance you're going to fail if you don't set that goal. And I think the other thing that a big vision does is it actually rallies everybody around you. Uh, if you want to go get great team members around, you set a really big vision because great people get excited by big visions. And if you have a really small vision, it's just really hard to get people excited. So when you one of the things that people are just struck by is how great the team is at Evanesced. And it's not because I'm that great. It's just the fact that Evanesced has a big vision. We've, uh, we've won some people over to come be excited about that vision. And, uh, and so, you know, I it's enabled me to hire people that are way better than me. And, uh, and and so that's what's enabled evanesced to get to where we are today, which is 21, 20, 2000 doors. Um, and then, you know what I think will be the lifter to get us to the 250,000 doors.

Pete Neubig: So there's a lot of things here. I was making some notes here. So the first thing I came up with was, um, by having a ten year vision, a lot of people underestimate what they can do in ten years and overestimate what they can do in one year.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. It's it's it's backwards. It's you overestimate what you can do in one year and underestimate what you can do in ten years.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. Oh, sorry, I thought I said that. Okay. Yes, I that's what I meant. All right. So, yeah, you underestimate um do you, where do you come out on like, um, like, have you ever pivoted the vision like, have you had this one vision? And then all of a sudden, maybe you're two years into it, you're like, man, that's. That's not what we really thought we wanted. We want to go ahead and do this. Or do you have you.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, that's a great question. That's a great question. Um, the answer is kind of so what I my vision has actually gotten bigger and bigger the further I got down that road. So I set this vision for the 25,000 doors under management by 2025. And as I've walked down that road, I didn't know how I was going to do it. And honestly, Pete, I thought it was going to be very linear. Uh, you know, you add a couple thousand doors a year and, uh, bought a boom bada bang. You're at 25,000 doors in ten years, right? Uh, the math is pretty simple. Um, but the truth is, the further you get down this path, you start to have more and more vision for the company. And so I'm actually excited about what is this company going to look ten, 15, 20 years from now. And so it hasn't pivoted because we're still chasing the same thing, but it's actually gotten broader. And so I'll give you an example example of that. You know, we really think that one of the powerful things that we're building is infrastructure in the market for service delivery.

Matthew Whitaker: Right. And so when you think about, you know, Evanesced as a, as a full service property manager, um, standing up these markets, we can do that profitably. But when you think about our maintenance technicians riding around or our, uh, handyman riding around these towns, you know, they're agnostic to fixing a toilet or fixing a door frame at anybody's house. So one of the things we're starting to see is, hey, we could be a home services business for not just rental properties, but also for, uh, for homeowners. Now, that's not something I would have seen ten years ago, because I had to get down this far in the path to realize, oh, it's what I thought I was building was this thing. But the truth is, the power in what I'm building is this. And that will enable me to do this, this, this and this. And there's a bunch of things when you think about home service delivery. And so, uh, so to some degree, yeah, the vision has changed. It just gets bigger and bigger.

Pete Neubig: When you set your vision of 25,000 properties under management, were you worried like as you get closer that, uh, your, your team gets I don't know how to say this correctly, but like, maybe they, they want more because now we're, you know, they get maybe greedy or I'm not sure what the right word is, but you might you might lose the culture Sure. Because like, oh, now Matthew's making all this money because we're at 25,000 doors and like, so how do you how do you kind of combat that or is that just a mindset thing that I have that doesn't exist?

Matthew Whitaker: No, I think, um, you know, if you're in it for you. Yeah. Your team's probably going to start thinking things like that. But if you do a great job of sharing the vision of, what, 25,000 doors, what 250,000 doors means for them, then they can get on board with it, right? To me, we have a core value called win together. And it's really important. Like I want to win by enabling them to win. And the truth is I really they ought to come first. They ought to win first, and then Matthew wins as a result of that. And I think it was zig Ziglar says that if you help enough people get what they want, you can get what you want. And so I think of it through the lens. And the last thing I want to do is build a company where I have a few people at the top that win. And, um, you know, that's a very lonely place. And what we think is if we can win as an organization, you know? And so what does what does it mean when we get to $250,000? Well, first of all, um, you can just imagine if we're ten times bigger than we are today, there's just going to be a lot more opportunities for people to have career growth, right? You're going to get at Evernote, you're going to get to start where you are, and whether that's an individual contributor or a manager or a leader of a big part of the organization. But it's going to enable you to have we're going to have more managers and more leaders as the organization grows.

Matthew Whitaker: And so, you know, if you if you want a career path that's going to, you know, enable you to have a career path, the other thing that we're, uh, we're working on is we want Evans to have some of the best paid team members in the industry. Um, it's no secret that when people churn, when you have people on your team churn, then you have, uh, a lot of owner churn as a result of that. And so we want to make sure that our team members are the, the, the best paid and the happiest. Uh, and we, we do a in fact, we're about to launch it right now. We do a twice a year, uh, team engagement survey. And what's interesting is as hard as the as this business is, we are still in the top. We maintain in the top 10% of all organizations that take this one survey. And we're actually the last time we took it in the top 6%. And that just means that, you know, I think the organization, this is not just me, but our managers and leaders are doing a great job of putting first things first. You know, Jeff Bezos talks about being customer obsessed. And the truth is I want my team to be customer obsessed, but I want to be obsessed about them because if they're happy and they're making money, uh, at Inverness, then they're going to do a great job of serving the customer. And then that's going to enable Evans to succeed.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I like that. Your your job is to take care of the team, the team's jobs take care of the customer, and the customer's job is to take care of the business.

Matthew Whitaker: That's right. Yeah. That's a great way to put it.

Pete Neubig: Yep. All right. So you talk a little bit about vision. How a lot about vision. How often are you reviewing the vision. And who do you do you review it with. Is this just a Matthew vision or is this like, um, you got business partners or, um, you know, uh, is it the top line management who's, who's looking at division?

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, I so I think a lot about this, um, you know, I think of vision as the CEO's job, right? My, my, one of my three biggest things I need to do is create the vision and then share it with all the stakeholders. And so, um, but but it's not just my vision. It is, um, you know, it is shared with the board. Uh, we now have a board of directors, uh, and, you know, it's making sure that they're aligned on what the vision is and getting their feedback on some thoughts about the vision. And then it's also sharing with the executive leadership team, which is about 9 or 10 people today, and making sure that they're fully aligned in the vision. And so, um, I do think, like if you had to say, who's whose job is it? It's definitely my job, but it is my job to also get feedback on the vision from the organization. And I think what you would find is the vision here is crystal clear. It's 250,000 doors. We also have a linear growth path thinking about how do we do home services for everybody. And uh, we're just actively looking uh, we're proactively working towards that vision every day. And, um, when we think about the vision, we break it down to, okay, what do we need to do this year to get there? What do we need to do this quarter to get there? What do I need to do this week? What do I need to do today to get there? And the whole organization every day is in a huddle. Um, not the same huddle. Everybody has their own huddles. But I ask everybody to say, you know, what is my highest return thing I need to get done today. And if you have 700 plus people asking that same question, what is the what's the highest return thing I can get done? Foreverness today you're going to have a pretty successful company.

Pete Neubig: Sure can. Um. Okay, so when people hear vision, actually no better question. Um, what would you how would you, um, consult somebody that maybe they're a smaller firm. Maybe they have just maybe 100 units or just starting out. Um, and they, you know, they want to create this. They want to create a vision for their company, but they don't have a leadership team or an advisory board or anything like that. Well, any recommendations on how they can go about that vision and how they can be held accountable to it?

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, that's a great question. Again. Um, so when I got started, I didn't have an advisory board or a board of directors or a leadership team. Um, in fact, when I first set the goal, I think there were only four of us working at Evans. So, um, you got to start somewhere, and you got to start where you are. And if you have 100 doors, that's great. Uh, at some point, I had 100 doors, too. Um, and so what I would say is, um, if you're setting a vision for where you want, I think, I think the first thing you have to ask yourself is. And this is something I did not ask myself, but I think I still would have gotten to the same place. But what do I want the end to be? Like, what do I want this to look like? You know, I still think there's going to be a great opportunity for people to build lifestyle businesses in the property management space. I know a lot of people that spend, you know, 15 to 30 hours a week working in the business. They take tons of vacations, make tons of money. Uh, and they just decided, hey, I'm only going to manage, you know, 300 doors or 250 doors, and there's going to be a really high profitable doors. And I'm going to do, you know, kind of what I want to do, um, or do I want to grow a business.

Matthew Whitaker: And, uh, and so I would say the first thing is you got to be clear on what you want. What do you want ten years from now? Um, for you to look back and be proud of what you've accomplished. So, uh, clearly, I want the grow the big business route. And so then I said, well, a lot of it has to do going back to the book traction, which is the iOS model. It said, you know, where do I want to be in ten years? And there is actually a, a way that a way you can go through it with the organization. If you have some team members that you're already working with, that you want to be on your leadership team, you can actually take them through a process of solving your ten year vision. But I think at the end of the day, the founder of the organization, the values of the organization sets the values because those values are kind of my values. And then the vision really needs to be the leader's vision. So while taking buy in from other people, uh, or taking some feedback from other people I think is important. I still think it's a, hey, you need to sit in a room and decide what you want and then go chase after it. If you're the leader of the organization.

Pete Neubig: All right. So I'm going to ask you to do a quick coaching session with me. You're going to be my coach here. All right. You ready? Put you on the spot. All right. So after talking to you, a broker owner, I thought that it was eye opening for me. I'm like, it's so simple about having a number that the whole organization can get around. And I thought it was brilliant. And then I said, well, what is Vpn's vision? And I could honestly, I would not be able to recite it to you. It was something that said something about pulling people out of poverty. You know, helping, you know, companies. It was just like, kind of like this. It really didn't mean anything. Thing. So after you and I talked, I came up with, I want to have 5000 fill jobs on the platform. To give you an idea right now, today we're at like 1200, 5000 jobs on the platform paid for on the platform by April of 2029.

Matthew Whitaker: I love it.

Pete Neubig: All right. So now, um, now what you're saying is I got to take that. Now I pass it through my leadership team. They're cool with it. They're like, cool because I asked them what our vision was, and I got three different answers from three different people. Right. So I'm like this. This makes a lot of sense to me. Now the next thing is, how do I go about and tell I have a small I have a small firm. I think there's like 12 of us. So company meeting, is that the right time to do it? Do I do I blast it on an email? Like what's the do I call people individually? What's the best way to get to get this message out?

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, I enjoy doing a quarterly state of the company meeting where I basically get the whole organization, uh, you know, in a zoom room. Uh, and go for about an hour. Just share a vision. Hey, what did we accomplish? What have we accomplished so far? Where did we come from? What did we what did we think we were going to do this last quarter? What do we want to do next quarter? Where are we headed? And I think that's like a great time to share something like that, because I think they need to see that from your perspective. And just remember, when you're sharing that vision, you need to tie it back to what that means for them, right? Like 5000 doesn't have a meaning until you give it meaning. And so when you think about, well, what does 5000 do? You can actually tie it back to the, the whole idea of lifting people out of poverty. Right. Like, you know, 5000 people are, you know, no longer having to do $1 an hour jobs. And now we're making, uh, you know, six times that or whatever, whatever the case may be. Right? And so I think it's it's about, it's a, you kind of like color in the lines of 5000. And so I would I would share it in a state of the company. Again, this is another Gino Wickman iOS thing. And then I would uh, and then I would constantly repeat it. You know, Patrick Lencioni talks about us being chief repeating officers. You repeat yourself over and over again. And what I find is, I repeat, uh, the things that I tell the team over and over again until they believe it.

Matthew Whitaker: And one of the things I've found with humans, and this is the case with you repeating the 5000 goal. If you repeat it enough, they start to believe it. And if you say it one time, they're not going to believe it. But if you say it ten times, they're likely to believe you're bought into it. And, um, and you're sold out to it. And, uh, and I think that then, then all of a sudden, then they can catch the, uh, catch the vision and then share that with their organization. And I like the idea that it's something as simple as 5000 because as you grow the organization, it needs to carry. You know, one of the challenges we have now is like, if I want to get a message to the organization and it's a complicated message, it doesn't carry very well. But if I can simplify it into something that's easily shareable, which 5000 or 5, you know, we even called it 25 K or 250 K. Um, that's an easily transferable thing where it's very hard to get that wrong. I'll give you another example. I've got, uh, a maintenance team that's out, um, out doing work orders all around the country right now. Um, you know, one of the differences between Evans and others is we have our own in-house maintenance technicians. Well, if you said, uh, the whole goal is to keep those maintenance technicians fully utilized or fully realized. But if I said, hey, what we want is full utilization of our maintenance team like that would just kind of like blow over their head. They wouldn't, you know, they.

Pete Neubig: Don't understand what that means. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker: And it's not tangible. Right. But we have a thing that we say here at work 40 Bill 38 that's easily digestible and that carries everywhere, right? Like it's hard to get wrong work 40 hours, Bill. 38 of them. Uh, as a goal. And so now that's easily, uh, that's easily transferred down within the organization of 800 people.

Pete Neubig: Kiss method. We're going to keep it simple.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. As simple as possible.

Pete Neubig: I love what you said. Like you have to say it over and over. It's like, um, I've read that somebody has to hear something six times before they before they get it. And, uh, literally pulling something right out of the politicians manual. Right. How many times they tell us the same thing over and over and over and over when.

Matthew Whitaker: Remember, people, one of the things that I learned too, over the years is it's not that people are dense. It's the fact that they lack some context at the time. And so to me learning is reps and context. And you can see this really clearly in a new team member. When a new team member starts they kind of like lack the context of your organization. And so you tell them things that if you that and then you like keep repeating it. And then as their context grows, if they start to work in the organization, it's amazing how much more sticks. But if you tell them something on the first day and expect it to be there on the 90th day, that's probably not going to happen. So you need to be great at repeating the same things because as their context in the organization grows, those those concepts start to stick way better. And that's the same way with somebody that's been here for ten years, is I still have to provide them the context for the reps to stick, and also have to do the work of the reps.

Pete Neubig: When you when you're going over your vision of the of the 25 K. Now to 250 K, do you talk about? Like this is kind of like what the org chart is going to potentially look like, and this is the growth potential that you have inside of each division, things of that nature.

Matthew Whitaker: A little bit. Yeah, I'll, I'll share with them because, you know, one of the fun things to do and I learned this, you know, love them or hate them Elon Musk every time he gets I was reading his biography and every time he gets stressed out, he goes to the future and starts to think about, you know, what's life going to be like on Mars and what are we going to need to. So that's the way he re-energizes himself. And so when I think about the vision, um, and I think about motivating people to get to the vision, like sharing the story of what it's going to look like when you get to 250,000 doors, or when you get to 25,000 doors, is motivating to people because it excites them. And so when you have some, uh, some tangible things that are going to happen, just imagine one day when we're in like 60 markets. Imagine us having a couple hundred or 300 maintenance techs riding around town. Imagine us having, you know, six really capable regionals and how they're going to be flying around the country and making sure that our organization is, you know, running on all cylinders. Imagine our software as we continue to build it, and it's starting to solve some problems that we've had for a long time around, uh, work order context. I mean, those are the types of things that people get really excited about. And, you know, you share a vision of a better place, a place that's going to be, uh, you know, exciting to get to. And I think people are willing to do the work to help you get there. And and again, like, the more they, the clearer the vision is in their brain, the less work, the less decisions that I have to do.

Pete Neubig: Also, having a vision basically gives you the blueprint and you can create the plan much easier on what you have to do today, this quarter, this year to get there. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker: I think so. But I would be careful. I would be careful with me creating the plan. Like part of the reason you hire great people. Uh, Steve Jobs says we don't hire hire great people and tell them what to do. We hire great people and let them tell us what to do. And so I think that if you have a fantastic vision, you almost need to go get people to say, hey, I have a vision of getting us to $250,000. What what do I need to do from a technology standpoint? What do I need to do from an operations standpoint? Because, you know, this piece of the business better than I do. What do I need to have to to get us to that point, or at least get us to the next step that gets us closer to that?

Pete Neubig: I'm writing that one down. That is a keeper right there. I love it. Good. I love that one. All right. All right, Matthew, I got one last question before we're going to kick off to a commercial break. So as I'm building my vision of of getting to 5000, um, you know, filled positions on the platform, I had this idea that as we hit certain milestones, let's say every 250 positions that are filled to then create some kind of bonus plan. Where do you land on that? Is that is it too complex? I mean, maybe we're more a lot smaller, so maybe it's a little bit easier for us. But where do you land on that? Um, as far as, as, um, an incentive program.

Matthew Whitaker: I love it. I mean, I've had, um, some similar ideas. Maybe not necessarily a bonus plan, but I think a bonus plan could be great. Um, and part of this is it needs to be the flavor of your company, right? Like, a lot of these things are, um, you know, unique to you. And that's one of the great things about founding and growing a business is you. You put your signature on it all the time. And so, um, I think it's a fantastic idea. I think it's very similar to, uh, in his book Good to Great, Jim Collins talks about, um, this cross-country team, this high school cross-country team. And they were like last place. They were terrible. And then they brought in a new coach. And one of the things the new coach introduced was the system of the skull of winning skull and crossbones. And what would happen is they would count where the runners were at the second. So cross-country usually I think is like A5K, which is three miles or so, a little over three miles. And um, and so they would count where the runners were on the second mile and then where they finished in terms of the race.

Matthew Whitaker: And if however many places you move up, you get a skull and crossbones, uh, like to wear around your neck, like in a necklace that's like a, like a, like a dangly thing that. So So you might know, you know, if you cross and you were like 12 and then you finished in seventh, you would get five skull and crossbones. So the kids started wearing these as bracelets. They started wearing them as necklaces. And you could just see all the souls that they stole as they passed. But but what happened was now all of a sudden they created this. And I think what they said is, you know, whatever the school was, you know, uh, you know, uh, Westview High, uh, runs they're best at the end. And they and so then it was like everybody wanted skull and crossbones. So, you know, they may have been tired at mile two, but they were doing everything they could to cross to take.

Pete Neubig: Some, take some runners off. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. And so like to some degree gamifying that worked for them. Um, and that kind of like unique thing worked for them. And I think that we can do that all the time in our organizations. How do we take our culture and marry it with the goals that we want to create, the right things that are going to happen for the work. And just, uh, so yes, I think the answer is if if you wanted to do a bonus plan, that's I think that's fantastic. Um, but there may be other creative ways to solve it.

Pete Neubig: Awesome. All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. And then I'm going to put you in a lightning round. All right, everybody, we'll be right back. All right, Matthew Whitaker, you are in the lightning round. Are you ready?

Matthew Whitaker: I'm a little nervous.

Pete Neubig: These are the easy questions, man. All right. Let's start off with what is one thing that most people do not know about you?

Matthew Whitaker: Uh, I don't listen to much music, and I don't like, uh, I don't like a lot of music, so I listen to a bunch of. You probably recognize this, but I do listen to a bunch of podcasts and a bunch of books, and I'm a pretty boring guy.

Pete Neubig: You know what's funny? I don't listen to a lot of music anymore, uh, either. And I'm trying to learn the guitar. It's like, completely like. Like why? Like I don't listen to music, but I go to. I get a guitar lesson every week, so I'm not really sure why I'm doing that, but, uh, but I do enjoy it. It's kind of fun.

Speaker3: I think it's great.

Pete Neubig: All right. What is one piece of advice you'd give someone just starting out in the property management business?

Matthew Whitaker: Uh, I think I've already said this, but read the book. Traction. Uh, anytime somebody starts a business, I give them that book and say you. I highly suggest you read this and and follow it, uh, as closely as you possibly can.

Pete Neubig: All right. So I was going to ask, what's a what's one book you're currently reading, one is impacting your business or life. So I'm going to caveat that with give us a book other than traction that you recommend.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah I don't I so what I do is when people have problems I recommend certain books. Um if you are. But I'll tell you like some of my favorite books as it relates to being a CEO or being a founder or growing a business. Uh, Ben Horowitz. The hard thing about Hard Things is by far one of my favorite books. Um, I enjoy, uh, the biography, I enjoy biographies. I think you can learn a lot from biographies, because you realize that most of these entrepreneurs and most of these great people didn't have these perfect lives. I think we look back on the Abe Lincoln's and the, um, and the Steve Jobs and just think, oh, they were perfect and they didn't have any problems. And when you read their biography, you realize that they dealt with a lot of challenges. And so, um, I would say anybody, anytime you can read a biography and enjoy it, um, and if you have never read a biography and you want to start with one, I would say shoe dog, uh, which is the story of Phil Knight, who started Nike.

Speaker3: Nike.

Pete Neubig: Yep. Thank you. Um, what was your first job?

Matthew Whitaker: Uh, ironically, I can sit here and look at it right now. It is. I'm in an office park and looking down on Smoothie King. And Smoothie King was my first job.

Pete Neubig: That is awesome. You know, I got a whole story on that, but I'll give you the cliff notes version. Uh, when I was 30 years old, I was working for a company. I was their IT manager, and I was going to buy a Smoothie King franchise, so I. So my buddy of mine said, you should go work there. So I did, and, uh, you know, I was making, like, you know, a bunch of money, like, I had, like, a, like, $80,000 salary at the time. And I would drive to Smoothie King at night and I would put on my, my Smoothie King uniform, and some 17 year old kid would boss me around for four hours. That was kind of fun.

Speaker3: Did you?

Matthew Whitaker: It probably gave you a lot of vision as to whether you wanted to own it.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, sometimes the best decision is to not make the the decision and I made I did I made the decision not to buy Smoothie King franchise and, uh. Yeah, I think I'm better for it. Yeah, I think I'm better for it. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker: But it is ironic that I'm literally looking down. It's it's not just a Smoothie King. It is the smoothie.

Pete Neubig: No way. It's the. It's the Smoothie king.

Matthew Whitaker: The exact Smoothie king. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: That is awesome. Uh, what is he, a peel the bananas, make the drinks.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. I, uh, I gained about £25 working there one summer because I would always there's always a little bit left over, and I would drink it. Um, after the person left, I would pour the rest in a cup, and then I would try that smoothie.

Pete Neubig: So, yeah, you got one cup every night. You could have, right? Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker: Except if you made a little extra. There was some leftovers.

Pete Neubig: Some leftovers. Yeah. So you knew how to game the system. All right. What is your ideal vacation?

Matthew Whitaker: So my wife and I vehemently disagree about this. She is a beach person and would prefer to be in the islands, uh, or at the beach somewhere. And I would prefer to be in the mountains. So anywhere in the mountains. Um, and then you can debate over whether summer or winter is my favorite time. They're all right. They're both.

Pete Neubig: Final one. You prefer dogs or cats?

Matthew Whitaker: I'm definitely a dog person.

Pete Neubig: Dog guy. All right, you're off the hot seat. You're off the lightning round. Thank you so much. All right, Matthew, if somebody wanted to reach out to you or learn more about evanesced. Uh, also, is Evanesced still, um, are you guys still looking at purchasing property management firms?

Speaker4: We are.

Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. In fact, um, we just made an offer on one recently, so we are continuing to purchase property management companies. So, um, happy for somebody to reach out for that. There's a few ways to connect with us. Uh, LinkedIn is a great place to do that. We're pretty active on LinkedIn. Uh, Spencer, who's my partner in crime here? Uh, we have a property management show podcast called the Evans Property Management Show. Um, so there's just a ton of ways to connect with us, but, um, I would love to stay connected with anybody here and, um, happy to help anybody if they, uh, if they have any questions.

Pete Neubig: And Matthew is always at some of the he's always at the conferences as well. So, you know, I.

Speaker4: Am a big.

Matthew Whitaker: Supporter of Nahum.

Pete Neubig: Yep. If you see him go, go grab, go say hello to him. And, uh, he's super approachable. So I do appreciate that about you as well. Matthew.

Speaker4: Um, awesome. Thank you.

Pete Neubig: Yep. Thanks for being here. If you are not a member of Nahum, please go to NRP. Org. Org or give them a call at (800) 782-3452. And if you are looking for remote team members and you want to help us get to our 5000 our new goal, go to vpm Solutions.com. Or you can email me directly at vpm Solutions.com. Matthew, thanks so much for being here.

Matthew Whitaker: We're a very happy customer of yours. And um, so really appreciate our partnership.

Pete Neubig: We appreciate you as well so much. Thanks, Matt. Matthew talk talk to see everybody. See you next week.