Reduce onboarding headaches with a Property Conditions Report | Karen Jordan

A Podcast | Karen Jordan

Pete Neubig: All right, welcome everybody to yet another incredible NARPM podcast episode. This one is super, super special because we have Karen Jordan, Director of Growth at HBR Rentals in Tracy, California. So God bless Karen and the team over there that actually manage properties in California. I don't know how y'all do that, but she leads the business development, owner relations, strategic initiatives. She's also President-Elect of CalNARPM, the state conference, right? Is that the-

Karen Jordan: Yes, yes.

Pete Neubig: And she's obviously an active member of CalNARPM and she also represents, she also presents at NARPM conferences on leadership operations and team development. And she's also a 49ers fan, we're not going to hold that against her. Karen, thank you so much for being here.

Karen Jordan: Hi Pete, thank you. Always fun to hang out with you.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So Karen and I have been, we go way back, we've gotten lost together while walking at some conferences. And unfortunately for her, unfortunately I was the one who was telling us which way to go and so yeah, got lost there. But Karen, I saw you present at the PM Systems Workflow Conference, Paul Krakowski and Wolfgang Krakowski's conference in Vegas in January. And you were talking about property conditions reports. And I thought it was fascinating. And of course I was asking tons of questions and you called me a heckler and I won't take that to, I won't be too upset about that. But let's talk, so I thought, hey, Karen, this is great. More people need to know about property condition reports and how you're using them and leveraging them. So can you talk a little bit about the property condition reports and then how HBR uses them, how you implemented them and maybe talk about what the challenge was before and then what it solved for you and how it's working for you guys?

Karen Jordan: Super, super. So yes, I absolutely love the systems conference. It's one of my favorite conferences to attend now and sharing with our peers is amazing because it's such a small setting. And I love that you were there participating and asking me those questions, right? Because I think sometimes those questions, people maybe don't feel comfortable asking out loud, but I love that because you and I are friends, you could do that. And I think it opened up the conversation and gave people kind of more idea of what this really is about. So first of all, let me put it out there. I did not come up with this idea. Of course, like everything else in property management, we get best practices from other people. And this was brought to us as an idea from Peter Lohmann. So Peter Lohmann had shared that he had started doing this and it just turned the light bulb on for us. We're like, yes. So this is something we started May of 2025. So we haven't even been doing it a year yet. And it has completely changed our processes. So originally with most people, right, you get a phone call from an owner and they say, hi, I want a property management company. And in years before, I'd be like, yes, yes, let's do it without really finding out a little bit more about the owner, about the property. And we would spend all of this upfront time starting to work with this owner. And then we would get to the point where they just didn't meet our criteria. They didn't want to do repairs. They don't have money. They weren't financially ready. They were still emotionally attached to the house. And we would spend all of this time cultivating them, using our resources, our vendors, getting estimates, doing all of that upfront work. And then it would turn into nothing. And in one instance, it became almost like they thought that we were being sneaky. I think someone used the word, I feel like you deceived me or you didn't disclose this upfront. And for everybody that knows me, that's like, no, that's not who we are. And that's never what I want to present in our community. So that really felt uncomfortable. So when this idea came up of, let's do a property condition report. So what does that mean? So when an owner calls us, we do a call with them, right? We do a discovery call with them. And it is myself and Rob, who's my BDM at our office. And we'll go through and ask them, what are they looking for? What services could we help them? But then before we even move forward with getting into a management agreement or sending them our documents, we schedule what's called a property condition report. So after that introductory call, we tell them, first step, here's your Calendly link for you to schedule a time that's convenient for you. We're going to send our site inspector to the property and we're going to do a thorough walkthrough of the house.

Pete Neubig: Let me pause you there real quick. When you decided to come up with the property condition report, did you also change... Did you ask different questions to the owners to determine if they are going to be a good owner? Did you even change that a little bit as well before you even do the property condition report? Like, no, Spidey Sense is going off. We're not even going to go this route. Or you just keep... You flow everybody to the property condition report.

Karen Jordan: We do. We started just really disclosing upfront what those rent ready standards are. What are we looking for our properties? And why is that important to an owner? So giving them that education as to why that's important. The market right now is tough. There's a lot of inventory. So why would a prospective applicant apply to your house if it's not even ready? So giving them that education upfront and having that discussion and how do they respond to that right there? Oh, no, my house is ready. I've lived in it 10 years and it's moving ready. Not even wanting to engage or understand. We already know this is probably not going to be somebody we want to work with. So yes, we started changing more again towards the education part of it, educating the owners as to why this is a benefit to them.

Pete Neubig: Did you start seeing less people move on to the next phase?

Karen Jordan: No. Actually, they appreciate it. I think it clicked because I think they come in with a mentality, right? That this is easy. I could just put a house on the rent, you'll find me a tenant and move on. Not understanding that, oh, I have to do some work up front. Oh, I didn't know that. So I think the education part really helps them to understand, yes, this is, and again, a little bit about our market, lots of accidental landlords. So that was to them, oh, this is a business now. I have to treat it as a business. So that education part really helps, I think, them understand why they want to move forward.

Pete Neubig: Okay. So you kind of ask them the right questions. They're answering the right ways like, yep, we're going to move forward. So now the next step is we're going to go ahead and schedule a time. Are you meeting them out there? Please tell me no.

Karen Jordan: Myself? No, no, no, no. They don't want Karen there.

Pete Neubig: Are you guys meeting the owner out there though?

Karen Jordan: It depends. It depends. So we have owners who are like, I still live in the house or hey, my tenant still lives in the house. I can schedule a time to coordinate access for you or the house is vacant and I'll meet you there. So really just depends on them. So we always give them all of those options. Of course, disclosing that, hey, if the house is still full of furniture, later on, we may find other things, but we can absolutely do it while the home is still occupied.

Pete Neubig: Do you do the property condition report, even if it's leased out already?

Karen Jordan: So we'll have owners who are self-managing and now they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. I got a tenant, they're moving out and I want you to start the process after they move out. So if it's occupied with their current tenant that's in the process of moving out, that's where we'll start that.

Pete Neubig: And if there's no process of moving out, then you'll just not do the property condition report. You'll just take it.

Karen Jordan: Correct. Correct.

Pete Neubig: So let's talk. We've been saying property condition report over and over and over. So now you go there. What exactly is the property condition report?

Karen Jordan: So I have our site inspector who also is responsible for doing our move-ins and our move-outs. So he knows my process. He knows what we're looking for in our properties. So he'll go through the home. We utilize the inspector as the software tool where he's documenting everything with photos and it'll be a thorough report. Again, he's not a licensed home inspector. He's not checking.

Pete Neubig: He's a team. He's a team.

Karen Jordan: Yeah. He's just looking for the cosmetic rent ready standards.

Pete Neubig: And a shout out to Z-Inspector and Tim and the group over there. They just put some training on the VPM platform. So you can get Z-Inspector VPM certified.

Karen Jordan: Love that plugin.

Pete Neubig: There you go. Plug it in. All right. So now he knows because he's been there for a while, but as a team, you guys decided these are the rent ready kind of rules, right? Guidelines.

Karen Jordan: And those are published on our website. So even before they've picked up our phone, hopefully they've looked at some of these things. We're very about, this is another thing is transparency. The PCR, the property condition report is about being transparent with the owner. So they know upfront what's happening.

Pete Neubig: All right. So now you've obviously built Z-Inspector to go there. And how long does it take on average? Let's call it a three bedroom, two bath, two car garage house, your standard cookie cutter house.

Karen Jordan: 45 hour and 15.

Pete Neubig: Okay. And then you have drive time, right? And you have drive time.

Karen Jordan: Drive time. Again, he's very thorough. And then we've had comments because owners sometimes are there, right? And they're kind of following along. And we're opening cabinets and pulling out drawers. Wow. You do that? Yes, we do that because here's been instances where the drawers are not aligned. So even the owner can see during that inspection, the detail of what we're looking for in the report. So it's very thorough. Again, not electrical. We're not checking plumbing. We're not doing those things. Again, we're just looking at what is going to be the rent ready standards for us.

Pete Neubig: Now that seems to be a heavy lift, right? You got to have a team member drive out there doing an hour and hour and a half report or whatever it is. There's a cost to that. And you haven't even signed a PMA yet, right? So how are you guys building this in? Are you building back the owner on this? What does that look like? Or is this part of like, hey, these are just marketing expenses? How do you guys handle it?

Karen Jordan: Yeah. So again, during that discovery call, we go through the training or the education of the owner. And we tell them this is going to be a paid visit. You're going to pay for this report. It is a three hundred dollar cost. That is what we charge. And again, they get a full the Z-inspector photos report along with an estimate. So they get something. There's value we're providing to them. And again, this is all paid up front. So when they schedule that appointment through the Calendly, we've also hooked up with a Stripe account. So they pay right up front. So once we receive payment, we schedule the site visit.

Pete Neubig: All right. So you're letting them know, hey, we're not going to go out there until we get payment. Obviously, they can't pay through the Buildium or Appfolio because they're not a client yet. So that's why you had to set up the Stripe account, which I mean, I'm sure you set up Y, Stripe, any kind of account.

Karen Jordan: PayPal. Yeah, all of that you could use.

Pete Neubig: Easier than wire transfer, I would think. I'm guessing that's what you started with. You probably started with wire transfer and like, oh, this is a mess.

Karen Jordan: I liked it because Stripe has a API with Cali so I could hook it up together so they could be easily integrated.

Pete Neubig: Oh, great. Great insight. Great. OK, so now OK, so now you go out there and you have a team member doing that. What do you call your team? Do you call them inspector or I used to call them field technicians.

Karen Jordan: Site inspector.

Pete Neubig: Site inspector. I like that one. OK, so how long has your site inspector been with you and how long did it take you to train that site inspector?

Karen Jordan: He's been with us a little over a year, year and a half. And training was very, very detailed. He had to do a lot of shadowing. So lots of following along. He participates in all of our weekly calls as well. So he's listening to the processes and kind of, oh, hey, this movement happened today and we missed the window blind something. So he's always constantly getting some training. So but for him, I would say it was just a lot of shadowing and maybe three, five visits. He got shadowed along with and he got it.

Pete Neubig: In your opinion, does that person need to be like a licensed agent or do they have to be like a maintenance guy in the past, or could it just be, you know, a college kid that just.

Karen Jordan: That's exactly who he is. Yeah. And we just trained him on our expectations. He is not having conversations with the owners. Right. He's not going to be like, oh, and hey, when this house goes on the market, it's going to go for 33. He's not having that conversation. And when that conversation comes up, he directs him back to the team. He's like, I'm just here doing the report. And if you have questions, you could go back and ask Karen.

Pete Neubig: I just do documentation. OK, so because you are charging $300 for a report, which you're selling the value of it, we'll talk about the estimation part of it there. My when you were given this presentation, my big comeback was like, well, are you now having less people move forward to try to give you your try to give you business? Like, are you losing are you losing potential deals?

Karen Jordan: No, but the ones that I am losing are probably people I don't want to work with, because even though I've given them the education, I've explained to them, and they don't see that value, I don't think they're going to be a good fit for us. So even there right there is my first screening of somebody who may not be a good fit for us. But we have not we have not had -

Pete Neubig: Your numbers haven't dipped since you implement this. It's you're gaining the same amount of properties you did prior to this.

Karen Jordan: Yes. And the owners that have gone through this process, and we've gone through the whole onboarding and they signed the management agreement. They're the quietest. They're the quietest ones.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So you get you get value on the back end. So how many how many new properties a month are you guys are you guys looking to get?

Karen Jordan: Between 10 to 20.

Pete Neubig: Okay, that's still a pretty healthy amount. And for that 10 to 20. Do you need more than one inspector?

Karen Jordan: No, no, he can handle it. Again, his calendar is the one that's linked to that to that visit. So it coordinates with when he's available, owners availability and his availability. So it fits, it fits pretty good on his schedule.

Pete Neubig: Okay, so no challenges where he's not available for the next couple of weeks or anything like that. Because he's doing other move ins and move outs. Right. So Yep.

Karen Jordan: And we are only a Monday through Friday, Thursday, Monday through Thursday for him. So his he gets off on Fridays. So that the owners understand we don't do weekends. If you want a weekend, and it costs you a little more, but never it's never been an issue. So Monday through Thursday, the owner schedule those visits.

Pete Neubig: What are some of the top things that you've seen? And now who reviews the reports? Is it you? Is it the BDM? Or is it go to a property manager? Because they're not a client yet. So who deals with the reviewing of the report?

Karen Jordan: So we have our project management team, who this is all they do is the turns getting the properties ready. So Jack, who is my husband is the one who runs that that side of the team. So he'll get the report from the inspector. He'll review it, look at the comments, the notes, the pictures, and based on just our standards, what are the pricing for this, this, he'll create the estimate. Our commitment to the owner is that they'll have that within 48 hours after the visit. So 48 hours, they'll have the Z inspector report and the estimate as to what is going to be needed up front to get started.

Pete Neubig: So on the estimate, does he have to reach out to do you guys use third party maintenance? Or do you have internal maintenance?

Karen Jordan: We have third party, we only use third party.

Pete Neubig: Party. So how do you get the third party maintenance guys to give you like to get you a quote? Or does Jack know it so well now that he's able to give kind of a high level? Is it a high level quote? I'm guessing it's not a it's not line by line. It's not a line item quote, is it?

Karen Jordan: It's a line item. So it's a line item line item by location, living room, bedroom, bathroom, that way. But yes, because we've been doing this for so long with our regular turns, that we have a standard of what the costs are for all of these things.

Pete Neubig: That's right there. That's the I think that's the secret sauce. Having someone like Jack has been there. Because if you don't, and I'm guessing, you know, he knows what a mini blind goes for, or he could just look on Home Depot. So he's doing some of that research. You guys using any AI to come up with the estimates? Or does Z Inspector help with that at all? Like, because like, like, you got to paint a room? How do you know how big the room is, like, so you can kind of determine how much the paint is going to cost?

Karen Jordan: We use the whole square footage of the house. So based on that, got it.

Pete Neubig: So yes, you have a formula. And in the formula seems to work for the most part.

Karen Jordan: And we're a little more competitive, because again, we'll sometimes we'll get owners will be like, Oh, I got a friend, it would do it better than that. And then they come back and go, Oh, nevermind, you guys are good. So we try to keep it very competitive. And our vendors, because they know that they get the business, they also keep those prices down for us.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, so you have some good. So you have to have. So to make this be successful, you there's lots of moving parts here, right? So you have to have a good inspector, right, inspection person, or a, or a field tech person, you have to have your sales team be able to sell this concept of, hey, you're gonna pay me 300 bucks before we before we even take on management. Right? Then you have to have somebody that could be able to look at it, determine what all the challenges are, and then and then create an estimate. So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of pieces to this. What are some of the things that has there ever been one that you've that you've done? You've you guys done a property inspection report and said, Nope, we're not taking this house. Like even before even before you get into like, hey, the guys like I'm willing to put in enough, you know, $30,000 to make this thing going. Anything that you just said, there's just no way we can't take it.

Karen Jordan: Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I think it's been the opposite. For us, as long as they follow our guidelines, here's what we're going to need here. So the estimate is the estimate, you're good.

Pete Neubig: Knock down this POS and put a new house in, okay, and then we'll take it, right?

Karen Jordan: And that's, again, the first sign that they get it, they get it, they understand what the criterias are to be a business owner to run a management or rental income, they get it. So if that's they understand, it's the ones that push back and like, No, I don't want to spend 10,000. I think it's fine. Right there.

Pete Neubig: We're just not gonna So okay, so all right. So now, now, who gives you so Jack, in this case, does the estimate, he gives it to you as the sales as the salesperson, Is it back to Rob and myself, Rob and follows up, Rob follows back up with the owners is here you go.

Karen Jordan: Here's the estimate. Here are the next steps for us. You want to move forward, you approve this, you send us the funds, we'll start the management agreement from there.

Pete Neubig: So let's look at a couple things. So number one is either Yeah, I'm cool with the estimate. Are you getting funds for the estimate before you do any work? But you're gonna are you getting funds for the estimate after you sign a PMA though?

Karen Jordan: Correct. Correct.

Pete Neubig: Okay. So that's an easy one. No problem. I'm good. Now second one is hell no, I'm not doing any of this. That's an easy one to we're not we're not for you and you just saved your team a whole bunch of headaches. And then there's a third one. It's like, well, I know you guys want to do all of that. I don't really have the cash to do all of it. But I can do like 75% of it. What do you do with those guys?

Karen Jordan: Nope. No. Hard no. It's all or nothing. And we go back to the educating of the owner. This is why these things are on this estimate. This is why it's important. These are years of experience. We want to make your experience good owner, we don't want a tenant to move in and start complaining because then it becomes early. So we just back to educating them as to why all of its required.

Pete Neubig: So this may reduce the number of deals you get. But what it's doing is it's giving you all the right we talked about not every client's a great client, you are literally weeding them out on the front end versus the back end. So let's talk about the back end now. So okay, so you guys did all this, they paid a 300 they ended up signing a PMA they do to $20,000 worth of work. You're you now you hand it off to your property manager. And you're saying that they're the quietest one. So talk, talk about why this, you know, talk about the success, like, how do you measure success on this stuff?

Karen Jordan: Again, back to how we were doing it before. So before, right, we would go through this process, and it'd be a struggle. But I need you to send me $5,000. They don't send it. And we're following up and we're following up. And they finally do it two months later. And now they're complaining because it took so long to get the house on the market. And you took forever. But it wasn't us, right? It was them. And it creates this already kind of a bad relationship from the beginning. And now we're kind of having to educate them as we're doing the process. That went away. Now they know upfront, very transparent. Here's what we expect, why we expected. And here's a really smooth moving. On the back end, we're tracking how many work orders get opened after a tenant moves in. What was their resident satisfaction? What was their experience?

Pete Neubig: And that's gone down to almost nothing now, right?

Karen Jordan: That's gone down.

Pete Neubig: So that's- But now it's a better experience for the resident moving in.

Karen Jordan: Exactly. Because we were getting owners who were like, I just paid this much money, and you're getting all of these work orders getting opened. Why did you even bother doing all of these works? Well, because we weren't really educating them in the beginning as to why we did these things. And before we were like, sure, you could do this, but not this. We were doing that. And so now we're like, all of it.

Pete Neubig: So- And I bet you your days on market have gone down with that as well.

Karen Jordan: Our days on market have gone down as well. Yep. And those again, back to telling the owners, this is a hard market. You want your house to rent quickly, you want to get your time to income reduced. These are the things that are going to help you do that.

Pete Neubig: Best product, best price.

Karen Jordan: So that I think, and again, this is all learning from before, right? Just trial and error. We've kind of did this before. But the other piece that I think for me is a huge is the peace of mind for my team. My team was-

Pete Neubig: Stress levels goes down, right?

Karen Jordan: They were struggling. And then I was getting a little upset. Like, why is this taking so long, you guys? Why hasn't this done it? Why isn't this completed? And now they're good. It's done. We're moving through. Here's the process. And they're not as stressed trying to figure out like, oh, this owner won't call me back. Oh, the vendors are trying to figure out where they're going to get paid. All of that's kind of been reduced.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. And then like in future, when there is maintenance, you already have owners that are going to just send you the money, right? Because you built that trust. I'll put this in real dollars. Like when we were doing it, we did not do this at Empire. And I'm like, man, this would have made life so much easier. We would do it the old way like you did, right? Like, hey, you want to do your own make ready? Fine. Do it. Or you want to do only a partial make ready, whatever, right? And then their house doesn't get leased. And then there's, we used to take on utilities and the landscaping. And next thing you know, Empire's got this huge bill. And then Joe owner's like, you can't get this thing leased. I'm firing you. And then they leave us with a huge bill where you do it this way. They're putting all the money in. You're doing it right. I mean, now it's a soft market. And so it still may take you a couple months to get this thing down. But if any house is going in that area, it's going to be the one managed by Karen and team.

Karen Jordan: And that's again, back to just educating them as to why this is important. The other piece of this, Pete, that we didn't talk about is they say yes to all the things, right? Yes. They pay the $300. They do the required repairs. They sign the management agreement. And once they onboard with us, we credit them back $150 from that additional $300. So there's another value to them of we're serious if you want to work with us. And there's been instances, Pete, where they just pay us and go, bye. I don't want to do it. And we're like, cool. But we've given them something, right? We've given them a report.

Pete Neubig: Now they can go to their handyman and order whoever, another manager company, whatever. But you offer value there. So you give them back $150. So you give them 50% off if they sign a management agreement.

Karen Jordan: If they sign, if they move forward with us.

Pete Neubig: But what you've really done here is you found a way to get paid in a way to weed out the owners that you want, right? Because we all talk about it. I mean, you're at any NARPM conference. Ultimately, at some point, the conversation turns to how do you get the right owners? And then you talk about how do you interview them? For you, it's not even like an interview. And I think that the way they answer these questions, I think they're a good fit. You're like, no, I know if they're a good fit. If they buy this $300 property condition report and they do everything that they say that's on it, I know they're going to be a good fit. And you're saying that the number of noise, the amount of noise that comes from these people, you're saying that you call them quiet. I think you said earlier, right?

Karen Jordan: They're quiet. They get their first month statement. They understood because we've been giving them the updates. A work order comes in, they go, oh, okay. A light bulb went out in between moving. Okay, I get it. But all the big things were taken care of. They're not getting, wondering why their work orders are getting blown up and the tenant just moved in.

Pete Neubig: On the big things, that triggered a question. Let's say the AC is working, but it's like 25 years old. Are you guys going insane in your $300 deal saying, hey, we need to replace this? Or you're like, hey, when this goes, we're gonna have to replace it and it's on its last legs type stuff. Like how do you handle like the big stuff?

Karen Jordan: So after they onboard with us, as our project manager, there's an additional set of inspections that get done. They do preventative HVAC and they do preventative plumbing. And we do those upfront and our vendor goes out there and does a full report and says, hey, this air conditioner is probably on its last leg. It's good. It's working, but I want you to be aware. So that we give that scope of work again to them so that they can be aware. Just preventative. And we actually, as part of our service going forward, we do those preventative HVACs in the spring and in the fall for them as well.

Pete Neubig: Is there a charge to the owner for those? Yes. Okay. All right. So I get hit with the $300 and then the preventative stuff happens before the property is leased? So that's another, call a couple hundred bucks for those other preventative stuff. But now I know exactly, my property is completely now documented. Yep.

Karen Jordan: And we, again, in fact, we get pushback from that for the plumbing. There's a big one here. Residents will move in and they'll be like, my sink is clogged. And the owner's like, why didn't you check that? So it's little things that we learned ahead. So now we go through and everything's clear. All the drains are good. Everything's working. If a tenant calls later on a month later and they go, hey, it's clogged. Yeah, you probably clogged it. Now it's on you. So that's another way of just kind of educating the owner that we're doing this upfront so that we can protect you later on if a tenant opens a claim and says something's crazy with the plumbing.

Pete Neubig: So you got the right people in now, as far as owners, you're able to lease the property quicker. Do you have any data on that? The days on market since you started doing this at all? Is there-

Karen Jordan: I don't have it in front of me, but I know that it got reduced.

Pete Neubig: It just has. Okay. So that's good.

Karen Jordan: Yeah, I had that spreadsheet when we used at the-

Pete Neubig: Okay, so now, what you know, it's gonna be interesting over the next couple years, Karen is to see the length of stay if it increases.

Karen Jordan: Right, yeah, because we're tracking that now so our average length of tenancy is just a little over three and a half years. So, and again Meld came up with a really good report that correlates maintenance to lease renewals. So, I think this will, this will also show the owners the benefit of doing this up front.

Pete Neubig: So when you do your condition reports, do you like put in like the age of the dishwasher appliances or anything like that you guys get that detailed.

Karen Jordan: We don't get the age we get the models, we can track that later on for maintenance.

Pete Neubig: Is that going to the inspector and then it gets, then it gets API or just put right into yours to your proper management software.

Karen Jordan: Yes, then it goes into red by.

Pete Neubig: Nice. I love that. So you only have one time no double entry, like that. And then I'm guessing the Z inspector report is synced with Rentvine as well so if I, so I don't have to log into the inspector I could just log into Rentvine and then I can see the reports there.

Karen Jordan: Yes, and because they're not owners at the time that we're not in our, in our POS yet. Once they become it gets it gets synced automatically.

Pete Neubig: Nice. Is there anything that that we did not touch on that, that we should talk about as far as this process.

Karen Jordan: I think one of the questions that came up during the presentation was the fear of presenting this to an owner, because if you're in a market that nobody else is doing this in right and someone asked what if my competitor doesn't do this and I'm charging, but they're not and they're going to go with them. Again, you're getting owners who may in our specific our market who may not know they just don't know property management so you're giving them the information. This is the standard. They're not shopping around to say oh do you do this do you do this. So for us it wasn't even a factor of whether anybody else in the market was doing it or not. These are the clients we want it we want to educate them to that process. And again, our no’s has been very minimal, very minimal, and again the no’s that I've said no, I'm not a good fit.

Pete Neubig: They basically exited themselves out of the process. I can see why this would be an incredible benefit to your operations team. How did you get your BDM to say, yeah, because you know to them they want the yes right so those knows that save the team the operations team that cost the BDM potentially some commissions there.

Karen Jordan: The BDM is the one who came up with this.

Pete Neubig: No way.

Karen Jordan: He's like let spinning their wheels with owners that just weren't a good fit, and it just kind of going back and forth and back and forth and following up with them. And this kind of cleared. These are the people I want to work with. These are the people we I want our team to also support. So, it was an idea that everybody embraced.

Pete Neubig: I love it. Well, Karen, I thank you so much for being here. If somebody had some questions that I couldn't ask question boy here, didn't think of, and they wanted to reach out to you what's the best way to connect with you.

Karen Jordan: My email, Karen@HBRrentals.com.

Pete Neubig: And if you need some remote team members to review those reports or schedule your team out there. Go to VPMsolutions.com or email me Pete@vpmsolutions.com. And if you are listening to this, and you are not a NARPM member, shame on you. Join NARPM. N-A-R-P-M.org. NARPM.org, 800-782-3452. Karen, thanks so much for being here. See you everybody.