A Podcast | Eddie Ovey

Pete Neubig: Welcome back, everybody, to the NARPM Radio Podcast. As promised, I have Eddie Ovey here. And, Eddie, thank you so much for being here. Tell us a little bit about your journey, and what you're trying to accomplish at this time.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. Well, I'll give you the short answer and then I'll give you the longer background as well. So I'm the founder of Grandview Peak Capital, and my goal is to buy a PM company. The now the long story. So my background is pretty varied. I'm kind of the poster child of, like, pivoting around in your career, trying to figure out what you want to do when you grow up. But, I first started off as a chemical engineer. I'm pretty analytical, analytically based. but after a few years of manufacturing, I knew I didn't want to work in manufacturing forever. Pivoted with,  going to business school, then went into business consulting for a couple of years, and then the past several years I've been in the property technology space. So I first worked at a company and I'm based in Utah now, but I moved around quite a bit. But being in Utah, I first worked at a company called Homie they're an integrated real estate and mortgage brokerage, trying to be very tech forward and reduce the costs to the homeowner and buying a home. I left Homie and then joined Entrata.  They're one of the largest property management software providers in the multifamily space. and I was there a couple of years, but then, so fast forward. I got married in 2023, and, you know, a few months after getting married, my wife and I were having all the long term discussions of who do we want to be when we grow up, where do we want to live, all those sorts of long term goals. And, you know, we talked about this a little bit while dating, but I was very clear. Hey, I want to do something more entrepreneurial. I don't want to be necessarily in the "Always just trying to climb the corporate ladder." I'd like to do something more entrepreneurial. And where I ultimately landed was that I would quit my job, raise money from committed investors, and go buy a business. So fast forward, it took several months to, you know, put everything in order. But in 2024, I quit my 9 to 5. I've raised my fund, which is called Grandview Peak Capital, and I am always networking around, trying to find a great place to buy that I can lead and grow over the next decade. And I'm very focused on the SFR property management space. Because of the prior property management experience that I've had. And I would really love to make my career in the space as an owner over the next decade.

Pete Neubig: A lot to unpack here. So the first question I have is, you know, I had to quit my job once upon a time as well. And a lot of people who are listening to this, they had to make that very difficult decision as well. And I know we didn't talk about this in the green room, so I apologize. I'm going to throw you on the spot here. But what did you do personally to prepare to be able to, you know, go without your income? I know your wife probably works like. But did you do anything to prepare for this? And, you know, this a lot of times this puts a strain on a marriage. So talk about like, how you came up to that revelation that you're going to do this and have the ability to do it.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. It's a great question. So first of all, my wife is a middle school teacher.

Pete Neubig: She brings in the big bucks.

Eddie Ovey: She brings in the big bucks. Exactly, exactly. It's funny, she taught high school for a while, then went into the corporate world, didn't like it, and went back into teaching. But, yeah, candidly, we wouldn't be able to just support our life together just based on her salary, especially as we're starting to try to have kids as well. So, as I looked at various options, the option I went with in terms of raising money from committed investors, it also includes some additional money that I can use to like, live for day to day expenses. So we're not, you know, exactly strained. I had to take a pretty decent pay cut from my time at Entrata prior, but it's enough that, you know, we still have groceries at the end of the day, I can go to some conference. I have some additional capital to help me during this hunt for a good business to buy.

Pete Neubig: Now, how does one like. So you started this fund? How does one even start a fund? Like do you just know a lot of people with a bunch of money? Did you, like, go to school for this? Like, how do you even, like, start where do you start a fund?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. So Transparently. So my transition when I went from chemical engineering, then business consulting, etc., I did. I went to school at Harvard Business School, which opened a lot of doors. Candidly, growing up, I didn't really know anyone that went to anything. Ivy League. I grew up in Iowa. Kind of everyone that I knew were like blue collar workers. My dad was an engineer at a local cement plant, so, this kind of career path wasn't exactly obvious to me growing up. But yeah, with going to Harvard Business School, it opened up a lot of doors, and it was through that network that I established there. I've also had friends that have gone down this similar pathway and have bought other kind of businesses, for example, a business more in the infusion, healthcare space and other kinds of, you know, very kind of random businesses that you might not almost think of. But yeah, so it was really through that network that I was able to go with this kind of a capital raise.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So you basically learn the skills at Harvard Business School. And then basically the old adage, you are who you hang out with and, you end up hanging out with these kind of folks that's what they do, right? Like, I hang out with a bunch of property managers. We manage properties. You know, you start hanging out with a bunch of financial guys. They they get capital together and buy businesses. So very cool. All right. So now you told us why you're looking to focus on property management. Makes a lot of sense. You've had a whole career in there, and you you understand it. So tell me... So I want to take this on two angles. One angle. I want to look at it as if I'm listening to this as a property manager. And I may be like, hey, I think I want to sell. Let's talk about what you're looking for in a, in a company for sale and how people can prepare their company for sale and maybe get the most out of it. And then I want to look at, what you're looking for when purchasing a firm. So there might be very similar answers, but I've just kind of let's look at it in two lenses. So one is, I own a property manager firm and I'm looking to sell the firm. What should I be doing as a way to actually get the most out of all my efforts.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. So, yeah, lots to unpack there. But we'll start with the question of, "if you're a PM owner, what should you do in order to prepare your your company for sale", right?

Pete Neubig: Yep.

Eddie Ovey: I'll say, generally speaking, as a PM owner, I mean, you want to do two things. You want to grow the top line and you want to grow the bottom line. You want to increase your unit count, but also, you shouldn't just grow your unit count at all costs. You should be thinking about the home owners that you're bringing on and make sure that you can actually,  generate a decent profit at the end of the day. That being said, when you're starting to prepare, maybe start to think about selling your company. Not all companies or not all buyers are going to look at your company the same way. So for a buyer like me, transparently, I'm looking for a company that probably has at least around $500,000 of cash flow. And, you know, depends on market dynamics and things like that. But generally looking for a PM company with around a thousand, $1,000 or more. Obviously it could be maybe a a little bit down, a little bit up, depending on the geography that you're in. But that's kind of where I can get the numbers to pencil on my end. And for me as a potential buyer, I don't own an existing PM company. I don't bring my own existing team of accountants and property managers and don't already have a giant VA team overseas that I'm just immediately going to plug in. And so for me, I value a company based on its cash flow. And so,  different multiples depending on the size and the growth and the other dynamics of your company. Right. But,  other buyers, they might value your company more based only on the top line, because they're going to be very interested in just buying the existing homeowner contracts that you have. They have their existing team. They can value your company in a different manner. So, happy to discuss more of kind of the differences and I'll explain maybe my value prop as a potential buyer, but maybe I'll stop there.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So if I hear you correctly, somebody who's looking at top line looks at top line because they already have maybe some infrastructure and they can absorb some of those people and they can maybe cut a lot of cost. So the profit margin is, it's getting the doors and getting the revenue is more important than maybe getting a profit. Where you, are going to basically, in this case, in this scenario, you're going to basically bring in everybody from the company and just basically run the company almost as is and making tweaks, that sound about right? That's why you're looking more of a profit play than a top line revenue play?

Eddie Ovey: That's exactly right. So and this kind of illustrate kind of the value prop that I bring as a potential buyer. Right. So, there are a lot of aggregators in the space, a lot of really, really well managed companies that continue to either have like a regional or a national footprint now in property management. Right. And so, I'm going to over generalize a little bit. But like in many cases, if you're going to sell to a very well-established company, like one of the more national players, they might have them where they, if you were to sell to them, they want you to continue operating your company for the next two, three, four years. They they maybe don't want you to exit right away. That may or may not work for you as a potential seller. Maybe you're like, "man, I really want to retire, and I don't want to be still in the business for another three years." Other buyers, might also say, "hey, you know, we have our existing team. We're going to do things our way. When we buy your company." Maybe they'll say this upfront or not, but, like, they might cut like half your staff because they have their own team that they can immediately plug in all your homeowners and work with that. And that may not also be something that you're looking for as a PM owner saying, "oh man. But I've, I've got such a great staff. I've worked so hard in building this team over the last five, ten years", whatever it might have been. So my value prop really as a potential buyer is that, I'm looking for a company that I can almost kind of transition with the existing owner or owners, right. Like not looking, I don't have my existing team that I will. Replace your existing stuff. I also don't hire any sort of like long transition plan. I offer a lot more flexibility. If you wanted to be out within just a month or two or or wanted to transition over a year, or even if you wanted to look at some sort of more partnership agreement where, you know, I come on, but the previous owners continue in some sort of like C-suite capacity with the company. So that's kind of my value as a buyer. but because of that, because I don't see my own team in it in order to to grow a sustainable business and, and therefore base the company based on the cash flow. It's generating not on some like revenue multiple.

Pete Neubig: Are there any other factors like you talked. You touched on a number of units. What about, like, the different types of units? Is there any benefit of having like single family plus multifamily or all single family?  And then the second part of that question is what about multiple markets? Is it more beneficial to be in multiple markets? Maybe I'm in three cities in one state or something like that.

Eddie Ovey: Those are great questions. And like what I'm going to give the consultant answer that. It depends. Right. but in  a couple examples. Right. Like if you're in multiple markets, one, that can be a great thing if you are well run in all those markets, if you're in multiple markets, but you know, you're still very much tinkering in those markets and you have, you know, 4%, 5% monthly churn or something really atrocious like you probably stretched yourself too thin. So I would say, generally speaking, for me as a buyer, I'm looking for a company that is pretty well run that, you know, has churn under control, has things pretty much dialed in so that we can continue to grow,  in the long term and maybe enter additional markets over time. But you know, it's a little bit more dialed in so that was the kind of that part. In terms of like what kind of units to work with, at the end of the day, again, it goes back to being a well-run company. Multifamily and single family property management are very, very different. Different margins, different response levels in terms of like, maintenance and things like that. And so it, I generally would say, stick in your lane, do what you know well. Not to say that you can't do both eventually, but you almost need like different teams and different capabilities for each of those two areas. And sometimes there is a little bit of a blending. Right. Because like there are maybe smaller multifamily units that can kind of blend in between SFR and multifamily. But generally speaking, I'd say, yeah, pick what you do. Well and just just crush it.

Pete Neubig: Talk a little bit about contracts versus asset. Whereas like when I, when I saw my firm, we sold the contracts, we didn't sell the company, the assets. Do most people buy just the contracts or are they buying the assets? And what are you looking for?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. I mean, so I also follow, for example, Peter Lohmann, Todd Ortscheid. They do a really good job of kind of analyzing current dynamics. And if you follow Peter Lohmann with the recent M&A study he's done and Todd, you know, gave like, a short report on this, which is free and accessible. I highly recommend going and reading that. Well, but from that analysis, about two thirds of the companies in that study were sold to aggregators or existing companies in the space. And so I would assume in those cases oftentimes, and I can't  without knowing specific deals, I'm just kind of speculating a little bit. But for smaller companies, call it 100, 200 doors, it's more likely that would be just selling the contracts because these aggregators are like, hey, we're already in this market. We're just going to plug your homeowners right into our existing operations. They don't need your current staff. And so therefore they're not going to do an asset sale. They're just going to buy the contracts. If it's a larger company, then hopefully, and even if you sold to an aggregate, or maybe they're not yet into that geography. And so they're like, hey, we do want to do actually an asset sale, where we're going to buy everything your existing existing team, operations, contracts, etc.. because maybe they're not in that market yet, but, without knowing specific deals, I'm just giving some patterns of what I've seen.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I know, again, I'm just just using my experience. When I sold my firm, they were adamant that they did not want an asset sale, because of the risk. Right. Because I don't know if this national, but in Texas, you have, like, I think, four years to file a claim, you know, different types of claims. And it actually worked in their favor because two years after I sold, I got I got hit with a with a claim, some kind of lawsuit. So, and of course, it wasn't as before the sale. So, I know a lot of times they don't want to buy the asset, acid, but in your case, you might want to buy the whole asset because you don't have anything in play yet. Right. So you'd have to you'd actually have the company structure, the website, all that good stuff. Yeah.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. Without going into too much, just to add up one follow up point, because when you do buy a company, it's in its entirety and not not just like the contracts. they're usually two different kind of purchase routes. You can either do an asset sale or a stock sale. And generally speaking, like the asset sale is more buyer friendly. Because it allows you to buy the company without... If, for example, there was some litigation that someone wanted to bring against the prior company. It kind of wipes the slate clean for the new buyer. So buyers, generally speaking, want to do an asset purchase of a business versus a stock sale. It can have some additional, tax benefits to the to the seller. And that's why they would probably prefer that route. There's also some hybrid options in between. But without going into all the details, those are a couple different kind of actual purchase options when selling a company.

Pete Neubig: Spoken like a true Harvard business, law degree business, you know, graduate. All right. So let's talk about, now. Okay. So we we talked a little bit about like, how big your property management should be. We talked a little bit about, you know, a number of units being niched down really reducing churn, focusing on growth but also profit. Now let's talk about the structure of the deal. So a lot of companies might buy top line and might buy an EBITDA  of profit, or something like that. But now let's talk about because, again, I can only go with my experience and my experience. The price was non-negotiable, but the terms were. So talk about some of what are some of the terms when purchasing or when you're selling your PM firm?

Eddie Ovey: Sure. Sure. So first of all again going to valuation. Some companies value you. Some like myself, value a company more on an EBITDA multiple. Well, once we get to a valuation though there is some, you know, some structural elements that come into play as well. So usually you want it, you want to get as much cash upfront when you're selling your business. You don't want a whole lot of structure to it. If you have a strong property management company, it should be a mostly cash offer. Oftentimes you see some additional structure you'll see is a seller note. So I typically try to say this because, oh.

Pete Neubig: You cut out there real quick. Can you say that again.

Eddie Ovey: So yeah, in terms of the structure, number one, as a seller you'd want to seek as much, cash up front when you're selling the business. but then some of the other additional structure elements. Number two, there's what's called a seller note. that's usually usually see, maybe like a 10 to 15% overall amount of the purchase price as a seller note. And that's based on basically you as the seller will it's almost like a loan to the buyer that you'll have an interest rate. You'll gain additional interest over time. But it also bridges the gap a little bit of a hey, me as a buyer, I want you, the seller, to still have some skin on the game and not just be like burning bridges on your way out. So it's a little bit of a mechanism to try to bridge that gap and make sure that there is alignment in properly transitioning the business. Another thing that's in the structure as well. Oftentimes you'll see the ability to roll over equity, meaning that let's say you sold your company for, you know, $10 million and the buyer says, hey, you can roll over up to 20%  into the new deal. What that would mean is you would take like $2 million of the 10 million just sold and have that 2 million invested in the new structure of the business. Me as a buyer, I allow up to 20% rollover equity into the company that I would be buying. So that's one example. Other buyers may offer more or less depending on their specific dynamics. And then the last thing you might often see as well is some sort of contingent or turnout. This was often times based on homeowner retention. so they'll, they'll put some sort of incentive on and say, hey, if we a year from now have,  retention of, you know, 90% of the homes that we were under contract with when we bought the business. Then you'll earn, you know, this additional amount of money. So that's another, you know, lever that you'll often see in these kind of transactions as well.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. That's basically churn rate right. When you talk about that. Like so churn rate. Yeah. Again I go back to my experience, we got I think it was a 60, 20, 20. So we had like a two year payout. and then I think we had a max of 20% could get removed, based on churn that first year. And then we were able to take 20% in the sale as stock if we chose to. So you hit on basically all those points.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. One thing I'll add is like if you as a seller, like, you know what, just pay me cash upfront. What that usually is going to mean, it'll probably be a lower valuation.  people can usually stretch the valuation a bit higher if a seller is open to some of these. More contingent or seller note kind of options.

Pete Neubig: Which makes sense right? So hey, I'll give you more money up front, but because I'm going to have some churn, we all know that I'm going to reduce the price by x percent. But then as the seller, you're kind of free. You're shackled like, I was worried for almost two years about churn and are they, you know, is the company going to be around in two years to actually pay me the last percentage? I think also in the contract, they could actually give you back doors they don't want, which when you sell, you don't want to go back into management. Like, unfortunately I've seen this happen where, somebody I knew sold a bunch of properties, company took them, and then about 2 or 3 years later and he had like a six year payout, which is just crazy to me that you would go that long. I think three is kind of the max. I was able to work a two year, but what happened was in three years, they,  they decided they're going to keep all the good properties in this concentrated area, and then give him back some of the properties and then reduce the payout, because they gave him back the properties and it ended up working out well for him. At first he hated it because he didn't want to get back into it, but now he's actually growing the business again. He could probably resell it again. Probably the same company. Yeah. Really interesting.  I think when you're also, you know, let's talk a little bit about the mindset because, you know, when you're buying somebody PM firm, most likely they put blood sweat tears into it. and it's very emotional for them and not emotional for you. It's numbers. How do you navigate those waters?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. I mean so first of all, at the end of the day, I do have to have to get the numbers to pencil. I have investors that are backing me, etc.. Right. but I am looking for a company that has a really great team, great culture. I'm not looking at coming in and really changing that all too much. Maybe, maybe some other buyers would. Right. But   that's if anything, I'm looking for a seller that, you know, has a pretty strong property management company, and doesn't want to, you know, tear it down in any big shape or form. They, they want to find someone that is going to do. I don't like to use the term too much, but, you know, carry on their legacy is kind of a overused term that people sometimes say. But, that's kind of what I'm looking at, at doing is, you know, a company that has a really good team that it's been built on blood, sweat and tears. And, you know, my goal as an operator isn't really to change much, probably for the first three months or maybe even for six months. Ideally, I'd like to learn as much as I can from the existing team in place. And then, you know, I do have a decent amount of knowledge in the space and other, just general business training. So I will make tweaks over time, which, if the previous owner did want to stay on in the business, that can often be hard to tolerate. Right. Because it was your baby and you built it in very intentional ways, and it's hard to see it change. But at least in the short term, I really would want to just grow with the existing team and then make some additional tweaks in the long term.

Pete Neubig: You know, and I would say from,  from the seller's perspective, I think you need to know, you know, you maybe you've owned this firm for ten, 15, 20 years. You really need to know what you're going to do next.  because what I've seen and this happened to me personally, and I've seen this with other folks, they sell the business, and now they really didn't prepare for the next chapter in their life, and they get depressed. They got a bunch of money in the bank, but now they have no purpose. And so if you're listening to this and you are thinking about selling, I would say, like, even if you're going to, you know, ride out in the sunset, that's great. But understand that's what you want to do and that's what you're going to do. Because, you know, for me personally, I had more money in my bank account. I took a job because I didn't know what to do next. I was getting paid very, very well, and I was I was really unhappy. And I was actually a terrible employee for the company that purchased me. And,  you know, 18 months later, we decided to part ways, and it was probably six months too late, to be quite honest with you.  for both of us. And so,  I would just caution, like, just a cautionary tale, like, because if somebody purchased you and let's say it's Eddie. Yeah. Okay, maybe you stay on for 90 days as a transition, but at the end of the day, you don't own that firm anymore, and somebody else does, and they are going to make decisions that most likely you're not going to agree with from time to time. And that's going to be really hard because the buck used to stop with you and now you have to, you know, basically, you're working for somebody else and, you know, so you just got to be mindful of that. Yup.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah, that's exactly right.

Pete Neubig: All right. Eddie,  is there anything else that we need to touch upon purchasing or selling?  oh. You know what? Let's do this super high level kind of give us, like, the step by step. So let's say somebody is interested, right? What's the first step? Is it an LOI. Are you doing due diligence. Kind of just talk about high level. What those steps that you go through the purchase.

Eddie Ovey: Sure, sure. Yeah. I'll illustrate my process in a little bit more detail. because my process is probably a little bit more personal and a hands on transparently than maybe some other buyers that, you know, they see the contracts and they, you know, want to close really quickly. so like like I illustrated earlier, I'm looking nationwide for a business to buy. And my wife and I are both on board that we're going to be moving to wherever the location of the business is. I want to be very much a hands on operator. So if your business is in, if I were to buy a business in North Carolina, I'm moving from Utah to North Carolina to to operate that business hands on. but how it how it typically works and, you know, I've active conversations with, with various buyers today or sellers today. but usually starts off with just, just the intro call, you know, start to get to know one another because I am looking for a good, not only good company, but a good mutual cultural fit that I can come in as an operator. So starts off with just an intro phone call to introduce myself. They talk about their company, their team, start to talk about, you know, what would an ideal transition look like to them. from there, I'll send over an NDA so we can talk in more confidential terms and have them send over financials, preferably from the like the last three years so that I can get a better understanding of that. I also want to see a little bit more and get more information the number of units and the overall churn that they've experienced. From there, I'd love to try to meet people in person. I'm not one to just, you know, make a deal without ever kind of seeing face to face. Maybe I'm a little bit more old school in that fact, but I'd fly out to meet you. Make sure that we're seeing eye to eye on things, and then ultimately, send over a letter of intent or LOI to buy your business. The LOI is,  it puts forth kind of the standard agreement of how I'm going to buy your business. This the valuation. Here's what we're contemplating for a transition plan. Here's the due diligence items that I'll be doing during during the process, and there might be a little bit of back and forth on some of the terms. But ultimately, if the seller then signs the LOI, then we're off to the races. So for I'll take somewhere for me to buy the business between 92 to 120 close on the biz. So the key steps that I do is I work with my accounting provider to do what's called a quality of earnings, which is basically just double checking to make sure all the math pencils, that you're making as much money as you say you are, that your books are saying they are. and then some other. From there, we do other diligence items to create what's called the purchase agreement. That is the binding document that when we get when we sign the purchase agreement, then we set the closed date and work with that overall close and transition.

Pete Neubig: And in part of your due diligence, you're doing that earnings deal, are you also tying up like the security deposits and like all that, others like, are you looking at that stuff as well? Making sure all that stuff ties together?

Eddie Ovey: Correct. Yeah. So we put together, you know, that sort of transition plan for all the different,  accounts and the, you know, the trust accounting and all that sort of stuff. Yep.

Pete Neubig: Nice. All right. Eddie, I could talk to you all day about this stuff, but we're going to hit a quick commercial break, and I'm going to put you in the lightning round. We'll be right back, everybody.

Eddie Ovey: Sounds great.

Pete Neubig: All right, we're back. We're going to put Eddie Ovey in the lightning round. Eddie, are you ready?

Eddie Ovey: Let's do it.

Pete Neubig: All right. What is one piece of advice you'd give someone just starting out in business?

Eddie Ovey: Oh, it's a good question. I probably my advice would be.

Pete Neubig: Go to Harvard and meet some bigwig friends and raise bunch of money.

Eddie Ovey: I mean, that's that's one pathway. I would generally say, like be intentional with what you want out of your career and your life. I think there's too many people that say, you know what, I want to work 30 or 40 hours a week and I want to make millions of dollars. And it's like, well, those two goals don't quite align. Something's probably going to have to give. And so I think more than anything, the advice I give is be intentional. Do you want really good work life balance? Do you want to just make a ton of money? Like what are the goals you have. And make sure that you understand the trade offs implied in the goals that you're trying to set.

Pete Neubig: If you could have dinner with anyone alive, who would it be?

Eddie Ovey: And so you cut up a little bit with it? Yeah. Go ahead again.

Pete Neubig: If you could have dinner with anyone alive, who would it be?

Eddie Ovey: Oh, that's a good, good question as well. Um. I'd probably say, so someone that's been through a giant, you know, transition in terms of like, basically taking a business from zero to continuing to run it today. I mean, love them or hate them, I would love to to sit down and chat with Mark Zuckerberg. He's a rarity of someone that has taken a business literally from coding in his dorm to now one of the biggest companies in the world. And it's a really hard skill set to, you know, go from they call 0 to 1, like basically go from nothing to actually have a business, but then take it from a okay business to a 50 to 100 million in revenue and then take it to the next step after that. Usually, you see a lot of leadership transitions in getting to that stage, but he's been able to navigate that probably better than almost anyone I've seen. So I'd love to sit down and chat with him.

Pete Neubig: What condiment do you put on your hamburger? Is it? Hold on. We'll pause there. Can you hear me now?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. You're breaking up quite a bit now. Yeah.

Pete Neubig: I can. How about now? Can you hear me?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. It shows, like red bars under your name. So I can hear you better now, but it has been pretty choppy the last minute.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. All right. Start again. Okay. All right. What condiment do you put on your hamburger? Ketchup, mustard, Mayo or none?

Eddie Ovey: Generally speaking, I like the more condiments and toppings, the better. So I usually put ketchup and mustard. I won't say no to mayonnaise, but if I'm making my own burger, generally I skip the mayonnaise. But burgers are one of my favorite foods, and I just love all the toppings on it.

Pete Neubig: What is a book or a podcast that has impacted your business or life that you would recommend.

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. So I mean, while I was at business school, the second year, there's a class offered by,  they're kind of colloquially known as Rick and Royce. but they teach a class on entrepreneurship and buying business. They call the classes small firms. Or I forget the exact name of it. But they have launched a podcast in the last couple of years. Not only did they have a book that talks about buying businesses, but they've also launched a podcast called, "Think Big, Buy Small", and yeah, I'd say that class and those,  professors,  were very inspirational. Kind of planted the seed. It took several years after business school for me to decide to take the entrepreneurial leap. But, yeah, they're very inspirational. And I continue to try to follow what they're saying and doing today.

Pete Neubig: Alright. Last one. Do you prefer dogs or cats?

Eddie Ovey: Sorry. You broke up there again.

Pete Neubig: All right. Last one. Do you prefer dogs or cats?

Eddie Ovey: I prefer dogs.

Pete Neubig: Dog guy. All right, we'll get you off the ground. All right. We'll get you off the hot seat here. If anyone's listening and they want to reach out to you, what's the best way to contact you?

Eddie Ovey: Yeah. So the best email to reach me at is eddie@gvpeakpm.com. But feel to call. My number is available for text or show call. Number (801) 641-1609.

Pete Neubig: Use that number one more time.

Eddie Ovey: Yep. My number is (801) 641-1609.

Pete Neubig: And it's at Eddie at GV capital pm.com?

Eddie Ovey:  Yeah. The best email to reach me at is eddie@gvpeakpm.com.

Pete Neubig: All right. And if you're listening to this and you want to join NARPM, if you're not a NARPM member. Shame on you. Go to narpm.org or give them a call at (800) 782-3452. And if you are in the market for looking at remote team members, maybe you need a maintenance coordinator, social media, leasing them in marketing person. Go to vpmsolutions.com. We are now close to 50 free training  videos on the platform where people can take them, test out, get a certification, a VPM certification in property management. Eddie, thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you everybody.

Eddie Ovey: Thanks, Pete.