A | Podcast Brian Clark

Pete Neubig: I appreciate you doing this, man. I really do. All right. Yeah. For sure. Here we go. Welcome to the NARPM Podcast. I'm your host, Pete Neubig. And like I say, every week we have another great show. We actually have owner operator Brian Clark with us today. Brian is a seasoned leader in the PM industry, co-founder of ABC Property Management since 2012. With over a decade of experience, Brian excels at building strong resident owner relationships while driving operational excellence through innovative tools like RentCheck, VPM and Tenant Turner. His commitment to accountability, adaptability and transparent communication has transformed processes like tenant screening and lease management, ensuring seamless experiences for all stakeholders, Brian. And Brian and I, we actually walked the Grand Canyon together and at Tony Klein's Onyx Retreat together. So, Brian, appreciate you. You've quickly becoming one of my good buds in the industry. Thank you so much for being here.

Brian Clark: Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. Grand Canyon was a whole other trip. it was awesome. life changing and business changing, for sure. So, the retreat was great, too. So.

Pete Neubig: So, Brian, like, just, tell us your story. how did you get into project manager? What were you doing beforehand? And how did you get into property management?

Brian Clark: Yeah, I got into property management in, like, 2012. I was just a sales agent, at a local big firm here, and, got an opportunity to be a leasing agent and then quickly realized, oh, I could be a property manager, for a third party, a third party property manager. And and kind of went off from there and just took it and loved most of it. And, did that from 2012 to about 2018. And, I learned a bunch. I love real estate, and I was just getting a little bored, and I got an offer to go to Walmart to be a buyer up there. And, and so I look at this kind of like three phases of my, of, like my property management career versus like just getting involved in it. Second is, you know, cutting my teeth at that firm where I was at. and then just, I took a wild, like, two and a half, three year break and, went to Walmart and did nothing with real estate at Walmart. but looking back, going to Walmart was a pivotal point in me opening my business. I never would have opened my business if I didn't go to Walmart. So spending time there, I call it retail Boot camp because, the things that I learned at Walmart how to run a business, how to do things the right way, taught me everything when I realized, well, if I can work this hard at Walmart, I can run a business and be successful. So, so that was that.

Pete Neubig: You were in the corporate office at Walmart. You were in the corporate office?

Brian Clark: Yeah. That's what we called the home office, here in Bentonville. just about 20 minutes from my office here. and that was I was in the old campus. They just opened up the new campus, and it's beautiful. Imagine a brand new college campus, plus business atmosphere and and retail shops everywhere. And that's pretty much what the Waltons have built, in Bentonville up there. And, it's awesome. I still talk about it because it helps my business today because so many people are moving here, for Walmart. And it just provides just a really good economic boost to the economy and, and my business. So.

Pete Neubig: So you were in real estate industry being a leasing agent. Then you did some some third party, some property management, decided to work for Walmart for a few years. And then you decided, hey, I'm going to go ahead and start my own property management firm. Was that.

Brian Clark: Yeah. So during Covid is kind of when I started realizing, you know what, I can do this on my own. and there was a few steps that it took to get there, but starting with just the belief that I could do it, and then the timing was really good because starting a property management company during Covid was, it ended up being a really big blessing because rates are low. People started buying real estate. a lot of investors were getting into the market at the time. and from there I started ABC Property Management and, we doubled our growth every year. We've had tremendous growth, for the past few years. And, and now, as I look back, the, the pivotal point of me and how I run my company, what we do, how we service our clients goes back to, a lot of it goes back to what I learned at Walmart.

Pete Neubig: So, before we get into the lessons you learned from Walmart, because I think it's fascinating. It's a it's there's so many books written on on Walmart and, and on on The Waltons. It's one of the obviously one of the largest companies in the world. and you had a great, you know, I mean, you had the opportunity to work there, but what was the mindset? So most people who are working for Walmart, they're not looking to go start another business. They're not looking to start their own business. So what what's what kind of what what made you decide? Hey man, it's good here at Walmart, but I want to go start my own business.

Brian Clark: Yeah, at Walmart they have a really good culture. And I noticed there was two types of people when I first got into Walmart and I went through the training, I mean, the culture alone. Like you, I remember a few people telling me before I went into Walmart, like, if you're going to go, you have to drink the Kool-Aid. you have to, to survive. And I remember going in and, and seeing the culture beginning to like, live the culture. And at Walmart, they do they celebrate. They're they're one of the companies that really celebrate, your yearly anniversary, to where, I mean, the CEO, Doug McMillon. You know, he'll right. He they write letters to people at like, every, every milestone, mark five year, you know, ten year, 20 year. Then they really celebrate people. you know, when you see 30 year, 35 year, 40 year, anniversary. So there's definitely that culture there. I also remember walking the halls when I first started at Walmart. And, you know, you hear whispers of, oh, yeah, well, I'm, I'm leaving or I put my two weeks in.

Brian Clark: And most of the time when you heard people say they're putting a two weeks in, it was normally, well, I'm going to go do something. I'm going to go start my own company. but you didn't hear it a lot, but you heard it a little bit. And I remember a few times walking down the hall at Walmart, and I didn't know these people, but they were they were these two guys were talking loud. They're like, oh, yeah, you know, we're going to go start this new company. I didn't know what it was, but I just remember them talking about it. And as I look back, like my mindset began to grow as I was there for a few years of I if I can do all this work in these crazy hours working with this intense pressure, I can go, get back to kind of not kind of my passion and property management and in real estate. And so, but the culture there is, they really do a good job of, just making you just buy into the culture.

Pete Neubig: So for you, was it just like, I think, there's no ceiling on what I can make and I can basically take I can get financial freedom and, and take back all of this time and, and make my time my own. Is that why you started start your.

Brian Clark: Own financial freedom and the freedom I didn't see, but because when I first started, I just, you know, was bootstrapping the company and was going to just work relentlessly. So I think the working relentlessly, getting into the details, having a sense of urgency to everything that I'm doing, and just really like being transparent of how I'm going to work with my clients and being one on one with them, was like, man, I if I can do this, I know that I can, build a business. Now I see that I can scale a business, but I didn't see that I could scale a business at the time. It was more just what I can do and how I can bootstrap it. and then, building a team and working with the team. You worked a lot with lots of teams at Walmart, very cross-functional organization that you had to work with. you know, I was the associate buyer, but then there was people that I that had to communicate on a daily basis to support stores to support financial the the finance department. I mean, there was just so many areas that you had to work with. that you were checking and that part of it I enjoy, but I'm like, well, you do some of the same thing in property management, whether you're talking to an owner, a vendor, a tenant, and how you're kind of making that circle connect and just keep it moving forward. So those are just a few things that I definitely, took with me. And, so I look back, let's.

Pete Neubig: Talk a little bit about that. So you mentioned the Walmart culture. so what is the what is the culture like at, at ABC Property Management? Like what did you kind of take from from Walmart and implement in your, in your business.

Brian Clark: Yeah, I think it's being a team like they would say a lot of times at Walmart, it takes a village to, to make something happen. It's, there's no I in in what I'm doing. and so, you know, when I first made my first hire, it was just an intern, and then he turned into a property manager, and, you know, then I brought my mom on for a little bit because I needed some help, and I didn't know what else to do. And then I brought on an office manager, and then I brought on a remote worker, from VPM. And, so I think but it goes back to just that it it takes a village to get things done. instead of saying, oh, well, I gotta work 60 hours and work the weekends and nights. I can only do that for so long versus, a team environment and just making sure that we're we're talking to each other. Some things that I try to remember and remind myself on a weekly basis. Walmart was really good about one on ones. They sure love to evaluate your performance, and squeeze as much out of you as well. But, those are just a few things that definitely really I look back on because I didn't think about it. I just naturally did it because I was so fresh out of Walmart. It's like, this is what you do.

Pete Neubig: But so did you create did you create core values and and were very in, in, intent on building the right culture for ABC.

Brian Clark: I did, I did I did create core values at the beginning. My core values at the beginning were communication, cash flow, and competency. I've recently changed those about a year ago. but I did. That was about as much as I knew that I was going to do so. Those were my core values. and then my mission statement was, in real estate, passion for real estate, driven for property management. And so, I knew that I had to focus in on.

Pete Neubig: Yeah, I find it really interesting because I talked to quite a, quite a few property management companies, and I'm always surprised how many either do not have core values or they do, but they really don't like really enforce them and kind of push them down. or they don't really think about like they have them, but they really don't think about their culture. Here we are, one of the biggest companies in the world and their core values, like you said, drinking the Kool-Aid. And so they literally, you know, find out, believe that core values are so important to make sure you get the right people in the organization. And so when you start your business, you took that lesson and you said, okay, I'm going to I'm going to have some I'm going to I'm going to focus on culture. And then you change your your core values. what was the reason for changing the core values? They just weren't aligning with what you wanted or were they just.

Brian Clark: Yeah. I think when I created my core values, it was just me bootstrapping everything and me just doing everything. and now I'm seeing. I thought I had an ideal client of what I was going after, and I was reaching for for what I could at the time, and landed some great clients. But now seeing what makes my team work well and how my team works well, and it's about my team. Not just me Bootstrapping everything, was a big part of kind of why I recently changed my core values and, and just being more open. And I've been repeating this a lot, but being more transparent to to my team, as my team is dealing with tasks that I don't always see, but making sure that they know what my expectation and what our expectation of a company is and how we're doing that, is really important. And having my core values at the beginning, had a lot of mentors that helped me as well. So the mentors really pushed me to make sure that what I'm doing, was the stuff that I learned at Walmart. you know, it's funny, I had I had some mentors, like, why the heck are you going to go to Walmart? You're crazy. And then others are like, okay, go to Walmart. And you know, they knew, but all of them, you know, when I left, it was like it was it was very eye opening because I was very different.

Pete Neubig: I think you did a really intelligent thing is like, you basically took the job, you learned a bunch of lessons, and then you said, you know what? I think I'm ready to start my own business. I'm sure a nice, interesting conversation with your wife. We've all had that, I don't know. you know, I mean, I basically I remember telling my wife, I'm going to leave corporate America and start and start a property management firm, which no one, she never even heard that there is even such an industry.

Brian Clark: Yeah, yeah.

Pete Neubig: And then so okay, so you learn a lesson of core values. Walmart. I know, to me Walmart is famous for like, literally like tracking everything and having these KPIs. Yeah. Is that something that is is that just something like I've seen or read or is that something that they they they yeah, they.

Brian Clark: Yeah. Well a it's top down how they do that. And you know, when I first started this company, I that part of Walmart, I just kind of put over in the corner on the back burner. now that I have a team, I'm trying to, like, go back and put that burner up front.

Pete Neubig: As a buyer for Walmart, did you have certain metrics, do you recall?

Brian Clark: I did. Well, I had I had a ton of metrics and we had we called them we had qbrs, we had 30, 60 90s. We had daily or not daily, weekly to bi weekly, one on ones. And we were going over, I mean, we had a, a list every morning. One of my jobs was to report, sales on stores where the stores were and what our items were selling at. and so looking at that understanding, one, how to put those reports together and then being evaluated on, okay, this item is up, you know, this item is down. this item has a problem with the store.

Pete Neubig: And I'm sorry. Did you say you looked at those daily? It was like a daily sales thing.

Brian Clark: Looked at sales daily. Yeah. And then I would have to send them, on a weekly. I would look at them daily. On a weekly. I would send them to, my, like my VP that would then get cascaded up to chain and pretty much he would look at them, he would digest them and then they would go up. And I mean, you know, they're they're sitting on the CEO's desk probably by Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning. not my numbers, but just the high level of what those were. So that's that when I, when I first think of KPIs at Walmart, those were some of the things that I was measured on.

Pete Neubig: I have so many questions. All right. Real quick. So you sent your sales numbers. Now other buyers sent in their sales numbers to the VP. I'm guessing he's packaging them in and sending it to the CEO. And the CEO is looking at the sales numbers as a whole. But now let me let me ask you if your sales numbers, obviously, if they're good, you're going to get a pat on the back or whatever. What happens when the sales were kind of red and they weren't like they they weren't like hitting the mark. Like, what were some of the action items that you're you're that Walmart would take?

Brian Clark: Lots of meetings. you would then say, okay, hey, what's going on? We need a huddle. We gotta. Everything else on your agenda is getting pushed over, and we got to figure out what's going on here. or are we making the right decision? Because the other thing that you're doing at Walmart is you're I mean, my modular season that I was buying, I would buy twice a year and I would buy in the fall, then I would buy in the spring, and then a modular would hit in the spring. But if I'm buying in the fall, I'm buying for almost nine months to a year ahead. And so trying to track trends, trying to track where those are, you're, you're making a, you're you're taking a bet and, and you're risking kind of what that's going to look like. and so it was something that you had to get in front of. And so thinking very forward mindset, but it was constantly reminding who's our customer, who's our customer. Because, you know, we'd have really high end suppliers come in and show us this big fancy stuff. And pricing was was high. Maybe that would fit better at a at a higher end retail store versus our, our stores were, you know, know our customer Edlp What's going on? They're focusing on who. Who we're selling to and how our customers are responding. you know, as I look back, those are some things that were really important. There was a lot of things that were measured on, from my a lot of my focus was supporting the team. And then, I got to manage a couple of modulars as well, so.

Pete Neubig: So you took that, concept and just, what are 1 or 2 things as a CEO of ABC management that you're looking at and how often are you looking at them?

Brian Clark: Yeah. So I'm actually about to well, what I'm looking at now is I'm looking at like our daily, our collections, our where we're at with our maintenance, how we're doing with, with our accounts payable or accounts receivable or making sure everything's getting paid. That's my current view. I used to have a bigger view, and I've. We could go way into a systems talk later, but, I have a bigger view now of where I'm wanting to go, and I'm going to be changing my systems to, to adapt to to being more of the CEO type on understanding where all levels of the business are without me getting into every level, because I naturally tend to just go right back into the details and naturally go right back into bootstrapping. And and that doesn't work. It doesn't work at Walmart. It doesn't work, with me trying to scale my company.

Pete Neubig: Well, you're still, on a smaller side of as far as, like, team. Correct. Like, what do you got? About five people, I think, six?

Brian Clark: Yeah. yeah. I got five.

Pete Neubig: So you don't really have lots of layers of management. So unfortunately you're wearing all those hats. So you're looking at numbers as a CEO. And then are you looking at numbers as like the manager as well. Like the departmental.

Brian Clark: Yeah. So you're looking at numbers that are where am I where am I. Business is performing overall. And this is some things that I've really spent some time on. But where my business is performing overall, where my revenue per door is, making sure that owners are getting taken care of. That's more just me getting into the details, but, and then looking at just how my like how many, how many weeks does it take to to flip a property to get a new property on the market where the market is big about? I think I've always been big since I've started this company of knowing the market as well, reading how to read the market. because you got to know how to read the market, you got to know how to predict the seasons of the market, or you're just going to be a, you know, a goose in a snowstorm.

Pete Neubig: And how are you doing that? Just like a lot of reading and, and keeping up with, with, some of the publications out there.

Brian Clark: I think it's, I think it's experience and just reading the I mean, for me, I'm reading the market by just, I'm getting into the MLS and looking at what's, what's out there, what's not. our MLS gives us a lot of, you know, data of on the market pending sold expired. and reading through that. And so it's a, it's a daily of just looking at the market on that end.

Pete Neubig: You talked to a lot of agents as well in your market to find out what's going on?

Brian Clark: It's a bit big on my business in general. having those relationships with agents has allowed me to work through, building the business the right way. A lot of those agents are seeing I'm an agent as well. But the agents a lot of times are talking to my clients before, I meet them. So the referrals are definitely a big part of the business at the beginning. And they still are today. but, yeah, talking to agents. And that was my time as an experience back in, when I was at Lindsay, back in like 2012 to 2018, my time there, I got to know so many agents and building those relationships. and even though that I was out of the industry for three ish years, maintaining those relationships were super value and were super valuable on on what I'm doing today.

Pete Neubig: So as you're telling your story with Walmart, you bought two more things up that that I don't know if you even realize it or or you meant to touch upon it, but one was, team management. You said a lot of meetings and a lot of management, and they, they, they did a lot of, reviews. Have you taken that into your business and how do you manage your team? What would be some one thing that you can tell people listening like that, maybe most people are not doing, like I can tell you, like I don't do annual reviews. I haven't done an annual review since I've owned VP for years. So like.

Brian Clark: I do them, but I for me it's like pulling teeth. I've gotten a lot better at it. I've challenged myself over the past few years to really get involved in it. but one on one spending time with my team, and trying to give an annual review, but I don't want to give an annual review. Walmart would grill you, they would motivate you, but they would also grill you. and that motivated me. I don't think it motivated me.

Pete Neubig: Was Walmart's theory like, you shouldn't be surprised when you get an interview whether it's good or bad. Like, are you having a like it sounds like you have a lot of meetings with your team. So when you do, your review is there's no surprise, right? If they're not doing a good job, they pretty much know ahead of time. Or did you find that to be...

Brian Clark: There was a little, there was a little politics involved too, that I wasn't really good at. maneuvering through that I now see back when I look back, but, I mean, there was a little bit, I think, the first annual review, I knew that I wasn't where I was supposed to, and how I needed to step up. but, you know, in general, looking back, it was those annual reviews, even those quarterly reviews. I didn't know now, but looking back, I mean, that was the motivation and the fuel for, for what I'm doing today. So.

Pete Neubig: Are you doing quarterly reviews as well with your team right now, or do you recommend that people do quarterly reviews?

Brian Clark: It's on my calendar after the retreat that we went on. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something now that I'm talking with through now that I've hired, that I have an office manager. and, you know, even you challenge me, to work with, you know, my team members from VPM, the remote workers, and, and just being upfront with them on on how that, what's going on instead of just, staying out of the business. there's two sides to it. One is just meeting with them and letting them have their time. and just me getting to know them better on a on a more personal and business level. And then there's the, meetings that need to happen when it comes to, performance and how they how we can sharpen them to get better. I view those as separate. And, I didn't used to view them as separate. I think at Walmart they did the same, but I didn't even know it. but now that I'm growing and, trying to build a village here, I see that, and I see why it's important, and spending time with my team on one on ones and then spending time on reviews, two separate and two very important tasks.

Pete Neubig: Do you do your annual reviews, for everybody at the same time of the year, or do you do it on their anniversary date?

Brian Clark: That's a great question. I've been doing them, at the end of the year, but my most recent one was when I hired my office manager. And, you know, I've done, a 90 day with her, in person. And then I'm going to do probably a quarterly one with her as well. I think quarterly are more important than, you talk about surprise. it's not fun. I've been surprised. I've been told, you know, not just in Walmart other areas. And as I look back in my career, since I started working at 16, that it's always better to have. If I could say something to improve my team in a quarterly review instead of slamming them in a in an annual review. On the downside, it always you're going to get a more positive result. so maybe you say one bad thing. Bad maybe is the wrong word, but just giving them ways to improve, for the business quarterly is much better than annual, in my opinion.

Pete Neubig: Well, and you also mentioned that you do one on ones weekly. So in theory, if, if you're listening to this and you're doing one on ones with your direct reports and then those direct reports are doing one on ones with their direct reports, and then they do a quarterly review. They're really should I mean, there really shouldn't be any.

Brian Clark: There shouldn't. Yeah. That's my that's my goal. and something I'm definitely working towards is, as an owner of the business to, to be more, in the just involved. And I think my mindset used to be, well, I have to be involved in every detail. No, but I need to be involved with them so everybody knows what's going on. building out who we are as a team.

Pete Neubig: Well, look man, I got there's a circle that I believe in. Right? So as the business owner, your job is to take care of the team. Their job is to take care of the customer. The customer's job is take care of the business. And the business job is to carry you and you. You have to go from point to point. You can't circumvent you taking care of the customer. It don't it doesn't work that way. So and I believe the best way you can take care of your team is meet with them often, like you're doing and and having those reviews. So I've learned like I'm actually I put some notes down here myself, like I need to start doing, at least at least annual reviews, if not quarterly, so that there are no surprises. Because, you know, a lot of times, as the business owner, I think things are great. And then all of a sudden somebody puts that two weeks in and they find out they weren't happy. Oh man, I thought everybody was happy, right? so.

Brian Clark: Yeah.

Pete Neubig: Now, the other thing you mentioned, so you talked about team management and the other thing you mentioned that when you talked about your story with Walmart was know your customer. So it's really important. And we were in the green room talking. And you told me since the, since the retreat that we went on with Tony Klein's Onyx Retreat, you actually flipped your, your ideal customer talk a little bit about what it was and, and and then you know what it is today and what what drove you to that decision?

Brian Clark: Yeah. I think it just comes down to how my systems and how well, first, before systems, just how my team can handle things. and so, yeah, we've just we've changed up our, our, our philosophy, when it comes to who our ideal client is. I used to think that I needed to work with, you know, venture capitalist, large asset managers, which I landed at the beginning. I landed those clients and they're still good today, but a lot of them have to run through me, so I can only have a few of those to make sure that we're running correctly versus my team can handle, you know, my average client that, you know, understands what a single family house can bring you and and how we can handle that and what we can do to make sure that we are not only taking care of their asset, but improving their asset. And, just making sure that we have the trust, together, working through that. So, single family used to be like, maybe single family, but now single family, is definitely a top priority on how we're handling.

Pete Neubig: So you actually manage for multifamily, commercial and single family. Those are the kind of the three categories you manage, right. And, you were telling me that. What was it? Was it multifamily was first and commercial was second.

Brian Clark: Commercial was first. Multifamily second. And single family was third. And so now, I've flipped it. And, we want to take care of the clients that we have now, but I think if I went and landed, you know, 50 commercial clients, it wouldn't be the same.

Pete Neubig: Your team and your systems just don't have the capacity. So you looked into it. You said what? You know what? We actually have the team and the systems to really, serve a single family. So you've kind of flipped it now in single family and multifamily. Single family is number one by far. And then if you get multi so all. So what does that mean when you say I know my customer now like is does that mean like obviously it means you got the systems around it. But like is you're changing your marketing, you're changing your sales approach.

Brian Clark: We are going to change. We're going to change a lot. I mean it starts with core values and and then how we build from there. I created the core values a year ago not knowing I kind of knew, but now I've really challenged myself to make sure that where my vision is, where we're going and how we're going to do that. And.

Pete Neubig: Yeah. So changing your vision, flip this whole flip your, your, your ideal customer on its head.

Brian Clark: It did. And so it's like, okay, who do we have in our basket now of, of clients. And those all need to be taken care of at a high level. but if we are to keep growing that at, at the rate that this market is giving us, what can we service the best and keep the service the same or better than where we're at now? And that is with changing what we are, and our ideal client. And that took a lot of time, because I remember when I first started, I'm like, okay, I want to talk to every commercial owner out there that has a property that should be triple net. And I did. I talked to a ton of them and I landed a bunch of them, and it's been great working with them. But, my team doesn't work as well with them. I have to work with, with them. And so, I still will and do, but I want to make sure that my team going forward. can handle who handles who works best with my team. And, it's just taking some time to get used to, but. And it's been a long process, but I think the light bulb came on, you know, a couple months ago. And then it really came on bright, at the retreat that we went on.

Pete Neubig: So, so you let the team know, which I'm sure was, was welcomed with open arms, and now and now you're working on your marketing plan to really dial that.

Brian Clark: Yeah. Before marketing, the business is still or the market still providing, a good amount for us. But before we before I go, you know, put jet fuel in my engine, we're actually going to be changing systems. So, going through and changing how we're doing. Well, it starts with policies, procedures, and then where we get to our systems and what's going on there. Right now we're in the big system change that we're going to do this fall. and that was something that a year ago, I'm like, there's no way I'm going to change a system. But now I gotta change the system now. and we gotta do it in a way that makes sure that, not just my ideal client, but everybody in my basket of, all my clients are getting handled properly and, staying up to date with the industry, even as small things as, like how we communicate and work with my remote, my remote worker Frank, and, you know, plan on hiring more of those and, making sure that Frank can handle the tasks that he's assigned to. and they're, they're much better when we focus on our ideal client.

Pete Neubig: All right. Last question before. Before we head out, how do you. So you have a remote team member. You're big on culture. How do you extend that culture over the wireless or the zoom, if you will? and extend it to Frank all the way in Mexico or Philippines?

Brian Clark: Yeah, it was really tough at first. Like really frustrating, really tough. it really just comes down to relationships and communication. when I first brought him on bringing someone on and then saying, hey, go do this or take care of this task. But before you do that, go read this policy book. It's tough to do. but when you get on, when you spending time with Frank, talking to Frank. for me, at the beginning especially, it was talking to Frank on a daily basis and just walking through why we do what we do. Now he understands. Now he's a pro at at taking, taking care of the tasks that are on his plate. and then some things that I've learned recently, is simple stuff, like have a lunch with, with Frank. now, it doesn't mean I'm going to fly to Colombia and have lunch with him, but, you know, we can sit here and have a lunch and just like I'm doing my one on ones, having one on ones, getting to know him, not just, . Hey, did you do that? Maintenance? And. Hey, did you call that tenant? Hey, did you call that owner? Hey, did you email that person back and all that stuff? I think it's building a better relationship with them. on that side. So.

Pete Neubig: And having those one on ones with your direct reports allows you to have time with them. And it's okay if you have some personal time, you know, meaning like you don't go in and just hit the agenda and or you make party agenda. Tell me something about you. Right. Or something like that. So you get to learn, you get to learn about people, you know, and this way, you know, they, they feel part of the culture. So.

Brian Clark: Yeah. That's important. But then also making sure that, like, I look back and I've had to change it since then, making sure that everything is laid out for them, making sure that you have a roadmap for them, that they are familiar with your core values. They're familiar with your policies, familiar with why you do what you do and why it's important.

Pete Neubig: Your mission, right.

Brian Clark: What is that?

Pete Neubig: Familiar with your... That they understand your vision, the mission.

Brian Clark: Yes. And I didn't know that because I failed before I got with BPMN. I failed a couple times with the remote worker. and I look back like, wow, keep failing, fail twice. I'm like, what's going on? Why? Why is all this working but not working? But then it's. I didn't have a roadmap. I had someone else that tried to draw a roadmap. For me. It was some other company. It just didn't work. I had to have my vision. They had to know what I'm doing or or they or they wouldn't know why I'm not happy or unhappy. And, so that was a big part. It's just doing the homework on the, on the front end for them to understand that and then just having the relationship with them.

Pete Neubig: All right, Brian. We're up against it. If anybody, hears this podcast and they want to reach out and connect with you, what's the best way to connect with you?

Brian Clark: Yeah. So my website is great@abc-manager.com. As well as, shoot me an email at brian@abc-manager.com. Love to chat with you and talk about what we're doing over here.

Pete Neubig: And if you are not a member of NARPM, you can join, go to narpm.org. Or give them a call at (800) 782-3452. And if you are in the mix and looking for some remote help, give VPM Solutions a try. There's over 42,000 people looking for work. You could take advantage of our free training and, and free resources. It's all free for you to check out. And then you hire them, you pay them through the platform, and the remote team member pays VPM a small platform fee. So, you can email me directly at pete@vpmsolutions.com. Brian, thanks so much for being here, buddy.

Brian Clark: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.